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Like I mentioned before thes statistics are from those who are actually convicted of a crime.
This opens up alot of theories and truths regarding the legal system in this country thus skewing the statistics
I appreciate your insight, and I think your concerns are indeed valid for further examination.
It appears you've taken good time to research this. I wished, however, you had pasted better citations.
The first citation is from Wikipedia. It is not suitable for citation because it is regarded as academically not credible. (Even high school teachers don't permit their students to cite from it for that reason.)
The second study is Canadian. Arguably it has litle relevance to the South Eastern United States.
As to the last study:
"The researchers examined more than 700 non-capital felony criminal cases in Sarasota and Lake counties from 2000-2010 and looked at the effects of the age, race and gender of jury pools on conviction rates."
One cannot infer that the outcomes of two counties' jury pools speak generally for the whole state. The study emanated from Duke University -- they should have known better to make such a leap!
Have you ever lived in Florida? There are gigantic differences geographically and even county by county. South [East] Florida is totally unlike Southwest Florida, Central Florida is totally unlike East Central Florida and West Central Florida, the Panhandle has more in common with Alabama than the rest of the state, etc., etc.
Last edited by MattOTAlex; 07-21-2013 at 02:39 PM..
The problem I have with understanding this event and the response to it, is that 8,000-9,000 African-Americans are murdered each year by other AAs. Yet for more than a year, the AA community has focused on a single shooting because it was done by a white/Hispanic? While tragic, it pales by comparison to the big picture!
It seems logical that the protests going on should be about all of the killings, rather than just one. Shouldn't the President be addressing the bigger picture, as well?
He has addressed black-on-black crime in the past. Black neighborhoods have held protests and marches against the drug trade and random violence for years, it just doesn't usually make the news.
In any case, most white criminals commit crime against other whites as well, since crime is usually about proximity and opportunity.
This case stands out, IMO because it signals a shift. A lot of Black people are used to the idea that there are people who are scared of black men and that one has to adjust for that reality. That typically means being prepared to deal with police who suspect you of something. Lots of black parents give their sons the talks about how to interact with cops. Random people who are scared of you are annoying, and lots of black men are accustomed to trying to put folks at ease or navigate other people's fear, but such folks are only dangerous insomuch as they might call the police.
But it this case, the random scared guy actually killed someone.
To some white (not all, but some) people, this is a case of "thug" who beat someone and got what was coming to him. To a lot of black people (not all, but a lot), this is the case of a guy heading home from the store minding his business who ended up dead because someone was scared of him. Since a lot of black men have experienced random people being scared of them, the idea of some armed guy confronting you with his suspicions then shooting you, and getting away with it, is frightening.
Since it is not clear who actually started the fight, I think people tend to imagine the scenario that fits their fears and react to the case accordingly. But no one wants to hear what the other is saying. It's easier to throw around insults than empathize.
I appreciate your insight, and I think your concerns are indeed valid for further examination.
It appears you've taken good time to research this. I wished, however, you had pasted better citations.
The first citation is from Wikipedia. It is not suitable for citation because it is regarded as academically not credible. (Even high school teachers don't permit their students to cite from it for that reason.)
The second study is Canadian. Arguably it has litle relevance to the South Eastern United States.
As to the last study:
"The researchers examined more than 700 non-capital felony criminal cases in Sarasota and Lake counties from 2000-2010 and looked at the effects of the age, race and gender of jury pools on conviction rates."
One cannot infer that the outcomes of two counties' jury pools speak generally for the whole state. The study emanated from Duke University -- they should have known better to make such a leap!
Have you ever lived in Florida? There are gigantic differences geographically and even county by county. South [East] Florida is totally unlike Southwest Florida, Central Florida is totally unlike East Central Florida and West Central Florida, the Panhandle has more in common with Alabama than the rest of the state, etc., etc.
You are correct about using the sample of Florida for my arguement, but I'm also talking from the experience of being a property owner and not having a criminal record, but in 30 years never been called to jury duty. Pittsburgh like many other large cities have a strange habit of not putting blacks on juries, especially for controversial cases.
Thanks for a well-reasoned reply! I was beginning to feel ignored.
White parents have the talk with their sons about how to interact with cops, too. Mine certainly did, and the same for my friends. It was all about "yes sir", and "no sir", and as a teenager, I got stopped a lot. Juvenile Court a couple of times. Then a judge told me I would be locked up "next time". After that, I wised up and quit breaking the law.
The sheer number of AAs being murdered has to take a toll on the thinking of AA young people. I have been told in my classroom, "why should I care about education, I will be dead soon." (Dozens of my former students are now dead or in prison.)
Truly heartbreaking!
One more thought: Should President Obama discuss the Antonio West story? It seems appropriate to me, being that he is one of the youngest murder victims in America's history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
He has addressed black-on-black crime in the past. Black neighborhoods have held protests and marches against the drug trade and random violence for years, it just doesn't usually make the news.
In any case, most white criminals commit crime against other whites as well, since crime is usually about proximity and opportunity.
This case stands out, IMO because it signals a shift. A lot of Black people are used to the idea that there are people who are scared of black men and that one has to adjust for that reality. That typically means being prepared to deal with police who suspect you of something. Lots of black parents give their sons the talks about how to interact with cops. Random people who are scared of you are annoying, and lots of black men are accustomed to trying to put folks at ease or navigate other people's fear, but such folks are only dangerous insomuch as they might call the police.
But it this case, the random scared guy actually killed someone.
To some white (not all, but some) people, this is a case of "thug" who beat someone and got what was coming to him. To a lot of black people (not all, but a lot), this is the case of a guy heading home from the store minding his business who ended up dead because someone was scared of him. Since a lot of black men have experienced random people being scared of them, the idea of some armed guy confronting you with his suspicions then shooting you, and getting away with it, is frightening.
Since it is not clear who actually started the fight, I think people tend to imagine the scenario that fits their fears and react to the case accordingly. But no one wants to hear what the other is saying. It's easier to throw around insults than empathize.
Thanks for a well-reasoned reply! I was beginning to feel ignored.
White parents have the talk with their sons about how to interact with cops, too. Mine certainly did, and the same for my friends. It was all about "yes sir", and "no sir", and as a teenager, I got stopped a lot. Juvenile Court a couple of times. Then a judge told me I would be locked up "next time". After that, I wised up and quit breaking the law.
The sheer number of AAs being murdered has to take a toll on the thinking of AA young people. I have been told in my classroom, "why should I care about education, I will be dead soon." (Dozens of my former students are now dead or in prison.)
Truly heartbreaking!
One more thought: Should President Obama discuss the Antonio West story? It seems appropriate to me, being that he is one of the youngest murder victims in America's history.
I can't see why he would address Antonio West. It's not exactly a case with a strong pro- and against- side. LOL. Pretty much everyone breathing thinks it is disgusting. Besides, once you start down that road, you can make a case for him addressing every single high profile case that comes down the pike. Given the huge racial tensions surrounding the Martin case I can see why he went there, but even that was pushing it. He was pretty much damned if he did and damned if he didn't on that one.
I agree that the rampant death in particular areas is taking a huge toll of the psyche of a lot of (mostly poor) young black men (and women). A lot of decisions that don't make sense to the outside world make perfect sense when you realize that most of these guys don't expect to be alive past 25. Also, some people have been seeing friends and family die since they were little. In some neighborhoods, kids have been to 4-5 funerals for people they actually knew and/or were related to before they even get out of grade school. And the thing is, a lot of the people were not necessarily looking for trouble when they were murdered. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It breeds an fatalistic outlook, and depression, and even PTSD in some people... plus the mindset that it doesn't matter what you do, you might die at any moment anyway... and the truth is, they are not wrong.
I'm also talking from the experience of being a property owner and not having a criminal record, but in 30 years never been called to jury duty. Pittsburgh like many other large cities have a strange habit of not putting blacks on juries, especially for controversial cases.
Not even factoring in ineligibility due to legal reasons:
Population of Pittsburgh: 305,704
Population of Pittsburgh 18+: 247,315
Estimated number of jury trials in Pittsburgh per year: 147*
Probability of a particular person 18+ (black or otherwise) being called for jury duty in Pittsburgh: 0.06%
* = (Population of Pittsburgh / Population of US ) x (Estimated 149,000 jury trials in state courts per year)
Not even factoring in ineligibility due to legal reasons:
Population of Pittsburgh: 305,704
Population of Pittsburgh 18+: 247,315
Estimated number of jury trials in Pittsburgh per year: 147*
Probability of a particular person 18+ (black or otherwise) being called for jury duty in Pittsburgh: 0.06%
* = (Population of Pittsburgh / Population of US ) x (Estimated 149,000 jury trials in state courts per year)
He has addressed black-on-black crime in the past. Black neighborhoods have held protests and marches against the drug trade and random violence for years, it just doesn't usually make the news.
In any case, most white criminals commit crime against other whites as well, since crime is usually about proximity and opportunity.
This case stands out, IMO because it signals a shift. A lot of Black people are used to the idea that there are people who are scared of black men and that one has to adjust for that reality. That typically means being prepared to deal with police who suspect you of something. Lots of black parents give their sons the talks about how to interact with cops. Random people who are scared of you are annoying, and lots of black men are accustomed to trying to put folks at ease or navigate other people's fear, but such folks are only dangerous insomuch as they might call the police.
But it this case, the random scared guy actually killed someone.
To some white (not all, but some) people, this is a case of "thug" who beat someone and got what was coming to him. To a lot of black people (not all, but a lot), this is the case of a guy heading home from the store minding his business who ended up dead because someone was scared of him. Since a lot of black men have experienced random people being scared of them, the idea of some armed guy confronting you with his suspicions then shooting you, and getting away with it, is frightening.
Since it is not clear who actually started the fight, I think people tend to imagine the scenario that fits their fears and react to the case accordingly. But no one wants to hear what the other is saying. It's easier to throw around insults than empathize.
You hit this right on the head. I have been trying to say the same thing that you posted without being too emotional about it while using the facts of this tragic incident to get people to understand how, even though it's not fair, black men are labelled as suspicious by many frightened people because of the disproportionately number of crimes that some black males commit. To me it's a way for some of these people to justify their racism because they don't seem to show the same bias toward white males who disproportionately commit other types of crimes.
In order for anyone to think that just because persons of the same racial group commit the majority of the burglaries or etc in a neighborhood, and that person feels justified to follow a person from that same racial group because they fit a PROFILE of probably being up to something, then that's frightening as well. It's one thing to see someone doing something criminal and confronting them to keep your neighborhood safe, but it's also another thing to just follow someone when you think that they are up to no good.
I am a black male and never experience white people being uncomfortable when I walk past them on the street. Actually some white people have even stopped me and asked for directions so maybe it's the way you are carrying yourself.
Can you elaborate on how might I carry myself? I think I carry myself quite well, especially since my parents are Christian Baptists. I was raised first to trust the Lord, treat people justly, love mercy, and walk humbly as my God has commanded all of this children to walk.
With that said, I have also been asked by white people for directions. I won't ever forget this elderly white woman, in my predominately white community, asked me to help her put gas in her car when I drive up behind her car to get gas because her husband had recently died, and she never pumped gas in her car. As a Christian man, I helped her like I was supposed to, and I never questioned whether or not she was profiling me or afraid of me because I was a black man. I think she just wanted help regardless if I were black, white or whatever.
I am sure that many black men can say that they have had many encounters like yours and mine and we were just carrying ourselves. So I am trying to figure our what you meant by the way that I am carrying myself. But on the flip side, I have also had encounters were people did do a double take when I would walk in their store or when they weren't paying attention while walking into the parking lot, they see me walking toward them or getting out of my car and clutch their purses or look down hoping that I don't say anything to them.
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Shouldn't the President be addressing the bigger picture, as well?
I was beginning to feel ignored.
Then a judge told me I would be locked up "next time". After that, I wised up and quit breaking the law.
