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I think TPTB understand that since they needlessly risk the lives of our military personnel and understand some would seek vengeance for the sub par treatment they receive while defending our beautiful country it's best to not arm them here.
Of course following the Constitution and not risking American lives unless our borders are threatened and taking care of our military personnel would be treating the cause, TPTB will continue to treat symptoms.
This one has me baffled. Or maybe "flabbergasted" is the right word. The Marines stationed at the Marine Barracks in the Washington Naval Yard, had their weapons with them... but were not allowed to have ammo?
I am at a complete loss to understand how anybody could have considered that a good policy.
In the wake of the horrific shooting at the Washington Navy Yard, one individual made an interesting point about yesterday's mass shooting at the Navy Yard in the nation's capital:
"I know a lot of people are concerned about guns these days, but you know if everybody had arms, then there wouldn't be these problems.
"My son was at Marine Barracks -- at the Navy Yard yesterday - and they had weapons with them, but they didn't have ammunition. And they said, 'We were trained, and if we had the ammunition, we could've cleared that building.' Only three people had been shot at that time, and they could've stopped the rest of it."
(snip)
Back in 1993, the Clinton administration virtually declared military establishments "gun-free zones." As a result, the policy banned "military personnel from carrying their own personal firearms and mandates that 'a credible and specific threat against [Department of the Army] personnel [exist] in that region" before military personnel 'may be authorized to carry firearms for personal protection." Indeed, most military bases have relatively few military police as they are in heavy demand to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan," according to economist John Lott.
Additionally, Lott discovered that "every public shooting since at least 1950 in the U.S. in which more than three people have been killed has taken place where citizens are not allowed to carry guns."
The answer is simple. Murderers pick places where they know their victims will be unarmed. It's time we debate having concealed carry on military bases. After all, there's no evidence showing that firearms owners are more irresponsible than the police....
First, the person quoted is the mother of a Marine. Not the most reliable "expert"
Second, she has no idea about the geography involved. By the time anyone could have theoretically
been notified and arrived from the Marine Barracks, the shooting would have been already over (shot by Navy Yard security). During that time of day, it can easily take 15 minutes to go from Navy Yard to the Barracks (I know this personally). Then find the right building, then take out the shooter. Right.
Third, this is a direct violation of Posse Comitatus. The only military personnel authorized to use firearms in a law enforcement capacity are Security Forces. Any other use of firearms by military personnel is a violation of the UCMJ without authorization from the Commander in Chief and involved in combat not on U.S. territory. The only exception is training.
Fourth, it is standard military policy not to issue live ammo until authorized to do so. Ammunition is tightly controlled for accountability and safety reasons. Woe to the Soldier or Marine who has ever lost ammunition (or heaven forbid his weapon). If there is live ammunition at the Marine Barracks, getting it out and allocated itself would have been a controlled and lengthy process.
First, the person quoted is the mother of a Marine. Not the most reliable "expert"
Second, she has no idea about the geography involved. By the time anyone could have theoretically
been notified and arrived from the Marine Barracks, the shooting would have been already over (shot by Navy Yard security). During that time of day, it can easily take 15 minutes to go from Navy Yard to the Barracks (I know this personally). Then find the right building, then take out the shooter. Right.
Third, this is a direct violation of Posse Comitatus. The only military personnel authorized to use firearms in a law enforcement capacity are Security Forces. Any other use of firearms by military personnel is a violation of the UCMJ without authorization from the Commander in Chief and involved in combat not on U.S. territory.
Fourth, it is standard military policy not to issue live ammo until authorized to do so. Ammunition is tightly controlled for accountability and safety reasons. Woe to the Solder or Marine who has ever lost ammunition (or heaven forbid his weapon). If there is live ammunition at the Marine Barracks, getting it out and allocated itself would have been a controlled and lengthy process.
Signed,
A military officer.
15 minutes from the Navy Yard to the Marine Barracks? It's only a third of a mile away. Most people can walk a 15 minute mile. Marines can most certainly walk a third of a mile is 5 minutes, and running would be half of that. I think you're reaching in order to make a point.
There seems to be this false assumption that people on military bases are all walking around carrying firearms. In fact most Navy personnel never touch a firearm after basic training. Soldiers are only armed at bases in war zones like Afghanistan and Iraq. The only people allowed to carry firearms on a stateside military base are the military police or DOD civilian police. Once Alexis was allowed to enter the base without having his bag searched nothing could have prevented the shooting from occurring. Even if all those Marines were armed they still would have responded after it was too late.
As much as the article would lead you to believe, the Marine Barracks are not located in the Navy Yard. They are two blocks over. Yes, it would be about a 10 minute walk for them to get onto the base. The first police team made it in within 7 minutes. Also, are all these Marines in the barracks trained in a loose-shooter-in-the-building scenario? I think not and let's not put them in danger when we have specialized teams for that.
15 minutes from the Navy Yard to the Marine Barracks? It's only a third of a mile away. Most people can walk a 15 minute mile. Marines can most certainly walk a third of a mile is 5 minutes, and running would be half of that. I think you're reaching in order to make a point.
At 8:30 in the morning with traffic coming from I-295, I-395, and numerous cars and buses on M Street? Then all the lights on the streets between, and not to mention coming through the gate. I know you're a local too, have you ever had to drive this stretch in the morning?
Really, all this 2nd guessing of what could have happened serves no purpose. In the end, the shooter is dead. 12 others are dead. The police and local security forces did their jobs. There is nothing more we can do now but to mourn and bury the dead.
26% of all Americans have a diagnosed mental disorder, each year. Mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada. Most are medicated. There's not enough money in the world to closely observe everyone who has been diagnosed with a mental disorder.
Are those with diagnosed mental disorders more likely to become violent than the general population?
How many more people have not sought help and are undiagnosed?
No one can guarantee that someone else may/may not become violent at some future date.
No one can be forced to take their meds unless a court has enough evidence to deem them incompetent to the point of involuntary commitment.
The only predictor of future violence is past violence.
The U.S. is a world leader compared to other developed nations in gun violence and mass shootings.
The constitution gives all the right to bear arms. The U.S. has more guns in circulation than any other place on earth. That along with the size of the population means that gun violence occurs more frequently. That's the price tag of the second amendment.
There is no reasonable way to keep guns out of the hands of people who intend to use them to cause random or targeted harm. Attempts to do so is nothing more than pandering to voters to " do something".
I find it very hard to believe that each year 26% of Americans are diagnosed with a mental disorder - unless you consider things like sibling rivalry a disorder.
I do certainly believe we need more places to put the deranged. I am constantly seeing news of people who were killed by police or who committed some sort of crime and that they have a past history of violent behavior. They are just allowed out on the street to walk amongst the sane until they start killing us.
There's a woman on the Upper East Side in NYC who spits on people as she passes them. She mutters to herself. She's been reported to the police multiple times and they do nothing. They are waiting for her to escalate. Will she? Who knows as nobody's assessed her.
This Navy Yard shooter, even though he is an intelligent guy, has had violent tendencies even in his childhood. He suffered PTSD from his 911 work, rescuing people. Yet, when the police notified the Navy after hearing the guy's cry for help they did NOTHING.
I think we can do a LOT more to help these people, or at least give them a lot more supervision. It should never have come to this. There is usually a LONG distance/time between a young person who has anger management problems and his finally grabbing a gun and killing people.
Those 12 dead need not have died if someone had intervened earlier and from what I am reading there were ample occasions for that.
I find it very hard to believe that each year 26% of Americans are diagnosed with a mental disorder - unless you consider things like sibling rivalry a disorder.
I do certainly believe we need more places to put the deranged. I am constantly seeing news of people who were killed by police or who committed some sort of crime and that they have a past history of violent behavior. They are just allowed out on the street to walk amongst the sane until they start killing us.
There's a woman on the Upper East Side in NYC who spits on people as she passes them. She mutters to herself. She's been reported to the police multiple times and they do nothing. They are waiting for her to escalate. Will she? Who knows as nobody's assessed her.
This Navy Yard shooter, even though he is an intelligent guy, has had violent tendencies even in his childhood. He suffered PTSD from his 911 work, rescuing people. Yet, when the police notified the Navy after hearing the guy's cry for help they did NOTHING.
I think we can do a LOT more to help these people, or at least give them a lot more supervision. It should never have come to this. There is usually a LONG distance/time between a young person who has anger management problems and his finally grabbing a gun and killing people.
Those 12 dead need not have died if someone had intervened earlier and from what I am reading there were ample occasions for that.
The mental health system in the US is broken.
So true. And then you have people who do realize something is wrong with them yet are afraid to report it or seek help because of loss of their job and the stigma society places on this.
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