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Old 12-18-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,122,798 times
Reputation: 15135

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Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
You know very well that the Constitution is almost impossible to amend, even if there is overwhelming support to do so.
Are you serious? It's been done 27 times. TWENTY SEVEN.

If there were support for repealing the 2nd, it would happen. But people like their rights - ALL of them. You're not going to see the 2nd repealed any time soon, and it's not because "the Constitution is almost impossible to amend." It's because THE PEOPLE DON'T WANT THAT.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,122,798 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
do you think it's OK for any of the 314 million people in the US to be able to own an AK-47
What's the problem with an AK-47? I own one, and also a shotgun built on the same platform. They're just long guns. There's no quality that an AK has that makes it any more dangerous or deadly than any other rifle. In fact, the round it uses is much smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle. Do you want to outlaw hunting rifles?
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,122,798 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by It'sAutomatic View Post
Should Americans in the year 9000AD have to sit back and call up historians to find out how a small group of men intended for our country to be run?
Uh, yeah.

Glad to see that you believe that the Constitution is irrelevant. At least we know where you stand. When the government decides to eliminate free speech, you no longer have the moral authority to argue against it. You must capitulate, as you yourself have decided that the Constitution no longer matters.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:17 AM
 
2,836 posts, read 3,497,250 times
Reputation: 1406
The Second Amendment does not grant any rights. United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875). Whatever rights that are secured under the Second Amendment, whether individual or collective, are nevertheless subject to law; which is to say that they are not unlimited, much less absolute. As Justice Antonin Scalia stated for the majority in District of Columbia v. Heller:

‘Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. (Citation Omitted) For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. (Citation Omitted) Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of theSecond Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. (FN 26 Omitted)

‘We also recognize another important limitation on the right to keep and carry arms. Miller said, as we have explained, that the sorts of weapons protected were those "in common use at the time." 307 U. S., at 179. We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of "dangerous and unusual weapons." (Citations Omitted)’ District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008).
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:21 AM
 
Location: MS
4,395 posts, read 4,914,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
What's the problem with an AK-47? I own one, and also a shotgun built on the same platform. They're just long guns. There's no quality that an AK has that makes it any more dangerous or deadly than any other rifle. In fact, the round it uses is much smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle. Do you want to outlaw hunting rifles?
Being in LV and owning an AK, did you get it from Rifle Dynamics? I'd love to take their build-it-yourself class if one ever makes it to the area.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
What's the problem with an AK-47? I own one, and also a shotgun built on the same platform. They're just long guns. There's no quality that an AK has that makes it any more dangerous or deadly than any other rifle. In fact, the round it uses is much smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle. Do you want to outlaw hunting rifles?
That is certainly true. I recently sold my Remington .458 Win. Mag because it was "too much" gun for what I needed. I bought the firearm before moving to Alaska. While I have no doubt that the 5,670 foot-pounds force (7,690 J) of muzzle energy will stop anything on two or four legs, it is more than I need. It also does not help when each round costs $5+ to fire.

Now I am considering the Adkal MKA1919 12-guage, built on an AR-15 frame.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:27 AM
 
793 posts, read 1,420,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swagger View Post
What's the problem with an AK-47? I own one, and also a shotgun built on the same platform. They're just long guns. There's no quality that an AK has that makes it any more dangerous or deadly than any other rifle. In fact, the round it uses is much smaller and less powerful than a typical hunting rifle. Do you want to outlaw hunting rifles?
Indeed.

The ak47 is a 30 caliber medium power round, vs the common use 30.06 which is a 30 caliber high power round.

Or how about the much maligned AR15? It's a 22 caliber mouse fart by comparison to a hunting rifle.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,462,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
Indeed.

The ak47 is a 30 caliber medium power round, vs the common use 30.06 which is a 30 caliber high power round.

Or how about the much maligned AR15? It's a 22 caliber mouse fart by comparison to a hunting rifle.

Like the AK, the AR can be equipped to fire multiple different calibers. While the .223 may be of similar caliber to the .22 LR, they are not anything at all alike. The 5.56x45mm NATO 62 gr ~1,250 ft. lbs. (1,694 J) @ 3,050 fps (FMJ), while the standard velocity .22 LR 40 gr ~116 ft. lbs. (157 J) @ 1,138 fps.

I certainly would not recommend hunting big game with either firearm. For big game you want to be able to place at least 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy at your target at whatever range you happen to be. A .3006, for example, using a factory load for a 165 gr Spitzer bullet, has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps and 2,872 ft. lbs. At 200 yards, the same round has 2,283 fps and 1,909 ft. lbs. of energy. Therefore, for a .3006 to be effective, your big game target should be closer than 200 yards.

If your target is further away than 200 yards, then I would recommend a 300 Win Mag with either a 180 or 200 gr round instead of a .3006.

Last edited by Glitch; 12-18-2013 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,861 posts, read 24,122,798 times
Reputation: 15135
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So, could Oppenheimer's Law be expanded to say that any pro-2nd amendment person who compares guns to cars is also completely discredited and loses the debate, or does that not help the agenda?
When cars come up in a 2A discussion, it's usually done by an anti-gun person ("you need a license to drive a car, so why not guns?"), so no, there will be no change.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:53 AM
 
793 posts, read 1,420,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post

Like the AK, the AR can be equipped to fire multiple different calibers. While the .223 may be of similar caliber to the .22 LR, they are not anything at all alike. The 5.56x45mm NATO 62 gr ~1,250 ft. lbs. (1,694 J) @ 3,050 fps (FMJ), while the standard velocity .22 LR 40 gr ~116 ft. lbs. (157 J) @ 1,138 fps.

I certainly would not recommend hunting big game with either firearm. For big game you want to be able to place at least 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy at your target at whatever range you happen to be. A .3006, for example, using a factory load for a 165 gr Spitzer bullet, has a muzzle velocity of 2,800 fps and 2,872 ft. lbs. At 200 yards, the same round has 2,283 fps and 1,909 ft. lbs. of energy. Therefore, for a .3006 to be effective, your big game target should be closer than 200 yards.

If you target is further away than 200 yards, then I would recommend a 300 Win Mag with either a 180 or 200 gr round instead of a .3006.
Well, of course the .223/5.56 can't be compared to .22LR. The only thing it has in common is bullet diameter.
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