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The way some folks were thinking in this article just seems like a toxic mess of bad decisions. When my boys were growing up they knew they were expected to go to college. I didn't expect them to major in something useless. I didn't expect them to go to private colleges. I expected that they would work during school to help pay their expenses. I didn't expect that they (or I) would take out extraordinary loans to pay for college.
One boy floundered for two years at a community college before quitting with my blessing. He was unhappy in school but was debt free when it was all said and done. The other got his graduate degree, went right to work in his field after graduation and had a small and manageable student loan to repay (which he did within a couple of years of graduating because it was a priority to get it paid off as quickly as possible).
All of us had the foresight to understand that college was important but not being buried under a mountain of debt was important as well. If one had had to, I would have suggested taking a year off school, saving money and then going back at it again. Thankfully that wasn't necessary.
When I was in college (admittedly a long time ago) I slept on friends couches when times were really tough and lived in crappy apartments when times were better, and I lived on so much Ramen Noodle that I couldn't even look at that crap for 20 years after I got out of school. Walked a lot. Stopped buying text books after the first year. Lived pretty poor even with working part time. I could have taken out larger student loans but I didn't want to. College was temporary - a whole lot of debt right after graduation (when I should have been building a career and a life) was not an option.
I guess I'm just saying that I understand how expensive college has become, but people are not looking far enough down the road. Live comfortably on borrowed money for a number of years in school (does anyone actually graduate in four years anymore btw??), eventually the bills come due, and I don't understand why people are so surprised when they come due.
A while ago -- but my son and his wife just finished college a year ago and they both worked the whole time, they had loans but were paying them off while in college, both got jobs immediately upon graduation and have gotten raises and promotions. They have their debt wiped out now.
For one, anyone can work at last 20-30 hours and take 15 hours a semester -- you might have to give up some of the parties, and you can pick up hours during breaks, especially summer breaks. Another son is just starting college, his full time job provides tuition assistance and he's going to get 2 years done at a near by community college.
You're reinforcing the point I was making in my post above. My son and his wife met in college and both got their undergraduate degree about six years ago. Wife went right to work and son stayed on to get his graduate degree. I just watched a show recently about the most recent spring break foolishness - my son worked thorugh spring breaks, a couple of evenings a week and most weekends through his undergraduate degree. There was still time for parties. Just not as many parties.
I guess I'm just saying that I understand how expensive college has become, but people are not looking far enough down the road. Live comfortably on borrowed money for a number of years in school (does anyone actually graduate in four years anymore btw??), eventually the bills come due, and I don't understand why people are so surprised when they come due.
People are raised to go to school so they could get a good job for someone else. They are just following like sheep and don't think about the path or about the cost to getting there. They think.. I'll worry about that tomorrow.
On the other side a friend daughter is going "away" to college this coming year. The parents are paying. The same field I was in. When they told me the cost which was crazy. They asked my opinion I advised a community college for the prerequisite classes if not all the way through. I used to work with co-workers who went away to school and I went to community college. We held the same title and license and paid the same. They had huge school debt while I had no school debt. Of course they are still sending her away to college and paying that crazy amount.
The next conversation, the husband said "I'll never get to retire".
So, a neurosurgeon is ignorant because he can't change his own tire?
I have run into people who are so hyper specialized in one area that they are seriously deficit in others but the example the previous poster gave, like not being able to change a tire, simply aren't that common. Just about everyone could properly change a tire though many people decide they don't want to and would prefer to pay someone else. I'm the type who would do it himself and going back to age 15 I rebuilt a car engine (with my father's help) just so I would have a car when I turned 16. Again, the problem generally is not that other people lack the ability to follow a Chilton's guide but that they simply have enough money that they prefer not to do so and instead have someone else do so.
There are, of course, a small percentage of people who are idiot savants but those people are not at all as common as the previous poster claimed just like it is not at all common to, using his other example, find people who can't do basic math if they have a college degree from a reputable university. It's not surprising that Malamute also falls into the Dunning-Kruger effect category given his posting history.
05-24-2014, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan
I think the most shocking stat from that article is that college costs have shot up 30% in the past five years. That is just insane and completely unsustainable.
Yep. That's what happens when states don't have the money they need to pay for all the goodies citizens and government employees awarded themselves. They start slashing from higher education. It's been going on for decades, which is the real reason student loan debt is exploding and costs are rising at completely ridiculous rates.
That said, I'm not able to muster up too much sympathy for the family in the OP. They made a long series of fantastically poor financial decisions and should've known better. Even if the public hadn't decided to slash higher education funding, this family would still be drowning in a sea of red ink.
I remember reading that there was a time where state higher education was free tuition wise?
I don't know about people now a days, we complain of paying high taxes, but i got to believe that taxes were higher for our grand and great grand parents if they were paying for free college.
Me personally i don't see college as good investment if your very low income. There used to be a time where college was a guarantee to find work, but today i know people with 2 degrees waiting tables. Personally a very poor person getting 50k in debt for no guarantee of a job is disastrous.
For as backwards a Red State Georgia is, they got their education priorities correct. Their HOPE scholarship rewards students and families.
It's been a wildly successful program. One in which many states try to emulate.
Families even the Duke porn freshmen need to stick to state schools as well. I am sure she could have gotten the same education attending her state school as Duke.
As for how to control college costs. It's very simple. Ration the number of slots in state funded colleges and universities.
Hawaiian by heart -- Taxes are at historic lows. You won't hear that much, but it is true.
Ronald Reagan when gov. of CA started the 'make people pay for state colleges' movement; prior to that any kid in California who qualified got to go for free. Other states looked at what he did and said 'we can make our schools into cash cows too'. This started the whole 'our college is fancier than your college' game as a way to entice students to pay more and more.
Folks who think college costs are the same as when they worked their way through as a gas pump jockey are fooling themselves...no part time job would pay enough to put a kid through college these days. Maybe if we raise the minimum wage, though.
I'd love to know how many of the 'liberal arts are a waste of time' types work for bosses with degrees in those fields. Quite a few, I'm betting. It's less Dunning-Kruger and more sour grapes.
My kid just finished her first 2 degrees at a state school in 3 years (saving us quite a bit) and will be going on to get her Master's. She will probably join the military afterwards.
People weighed down with student loan debt can't buy houses, can't buy new cars, can't consume the way Americans are expected to consume, and are a drag on economic growth
Young people with loan debt are going to be able to live their life and raise their families, but there won't be campers or boats or cabins for many of them. The extras that their parents could afford are going to be out of their reach.
What I've noticed with the young people who have moved into my neighborhood is they spend more time in their backyards entertaining their friends than the previous generation did. I think it's because most of them have big loans but one thing I see is they don't let it slow them down. So they can't afford some of the extras? They still seem to be enjoying their lives just fine.
Loan debt sucks I'm sure and maybe there is something that should be done for them.
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