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No...he was not targeted....but FEARED because of the combination of BIG and BLACK...and the FEAR led to the excessive force that led to the death. In many of the cases white police officers have a greater fear of blacks which leads to a greater propensity to use deadly force. There was even a study that showed that people, when being forced to make split second decisions to shoot or not, are more likely to shot a black person than a white person. That is because of FEAR.
Individuals..... We all saw the video. There was nothing to fear from Garner.
As to the bigger point....sheesh, this might take a book. I don't really disagree but it's why I say we need to see everyone as individuals and not as a "collective".
Yes, this irrational fear has fed both sides and I have argued against many of the reasons and causes. I absolutely hate stop and frisk in NYC. If a young black kid is constantly targeted simply because he is black and told he is targeted because he is black and blacks must be targeted because they are criminals, yes at some point I understand the thinking that if you are going to harrass me my whole life then what not at least earn it.
Stop and frisk must end. I absolutely understand any and all negatives that come out of the black community over that.
That lies with the mayor and council. The police don't make the rules, they have to enforce what's given to them.
Do you really believe that? One rule was "no chokeholds".
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I don't disagree on that. Anyone shown to be doing something illegal on Wall St. should pay the price. It can be a little harder to show and find evidence and the assumption doesn't get someone convicted. I think political influence plays a role as well, and I think many are operating within the law.
So maybe you can see this is not a black/white issue. Its an issue of "one set.of rules for you, another for me".
But as I note above, in some cases this idea does negatively affect Black's more than whites. It needs to stop.
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He was targeted as being in violation of a law passed, not by the justice system, but by the elected government of NY.
Sure I am.....when approached by police while performing illegal activity, simply comply.
Easy Peasy!
And you vote conservative? The people who are against authoritarianism? You suggest to just comply with authority because they're probably right?
This is something I've noticed about conservatives lately. They boast their 'government is hurting the people' thing, and I agree with that, but when a cop tells you to do it, you should just do it. So listen without objection to the very thing conservatives claim is hurting the people. This is a massive contradiction that needs to be observed.
How does one define 'illegal.' He was selling cigarettes on the streets. This is illegal because the government can't tax things sold on the streets (conservatives are also against taxes). So, when confronted, Mr. Garner refused to be arrested. So, that's not good. But really, what was his crime? It seems like a pretty harmless crime. It's not as though he was selling guns or alcohol to minors. He was just selling cigarettes. Did he deserve to die? And yes, the cops killed him. Rather the choking itself did it or the trauma that came after, it was still an example of excessive force. AND THAT'S THE REAL ISSUE. Several cops tackled a guy who was peacefully resisting arrest, one had him in a choke hold, he was claiming he couldn't breath, and the cops continued. What about that is acceptable? That's cops (the government) using excessive force for a petty crime. This is authoritarianism, that the right is JUSTIFYING!
Individuals..... We all saw the video. There was nothing to fear from Garner.
As to the bigger point....sheesh, this might take a book. I don't really disagree but it's why I say we need to see everyone as individuals and not as a "collective".
Yes, this irrational fear has fed both sides and I have argued against many of the reasons and causes. I absolutely hate stop and frisk in NYC. If a young black kid is constantly targeted simply because he is black and told he is targeted because he is black and blacks must be targeted because they are criminals, yes at some point I understand the thinking that if you are going to harrass me my whole life then what not at least earn it.
Stop and frisk must end. I absolutely understand any and all negatives that come out of the black community over that.
Its not going to happen. The human mind is not programmed that way. Its a built in survival mechanism. Our mind finds PATTERNS and uses those patterns to determent threat or benefit. You cannot have the mind turn off pattern recognition...especially in regards to things that our senses can pick up differences in. It then uses those differences to GROUP and created class of things that might be of danger or benefit or neitherr. Its the survival mechanism. Its like the way human learned the patterns of snakes and frogs.....those with bright colors usually being more harmful potentially.
Good for you....people believed that the world was flat at one time. People believe a lot of different things and thanks for sharing your beliefs. I try to deal in the world of science, as in CAUSE and EFFECT. I believe ever EFFECT has a CAUSE or CAUSES, because science says that every action produces a reaction. I do not debate in the emotional realm of BLAME, but in the scientific methodology of cause and effect. Everything that transpires is for a REASON and that reason is Cause and Effect.
I noted that there are causes and effects in my posts about stop and frisk.That is not a black/white thing as there are many elected blacks in NYC that helped implement this.
What an excellently written excuse for the status quo within which right-wingers get to ignore the racism still institutionalized in society.
Go fly a kite already, because that is a very ignorant and troll-like thing to say.
Racism is not "institutionalized in our society" the USA. If racism were institutionalized we would not have civil rights laws which forbid racism, we would not force CEOs to resign, cooking show hosts to resign, or basketball team owners to sell their team for making racist comments. We would not name streets after MLK Jr., nor would we elect a black man as president, twice!
I noted that there are causes and effects in my posts about stop and frisk.That is not a black/white thing as there are many elected blacks in NYC that helped implement this.
It might not be a black white thing.....but HISTORY makes it a black white thing. Blacks would not react to it as a black white thing if not being programmed by a history of it being a black white thing. That is human nature. When a liar speaks....it will be assumed a lie...even it is the truth. Such is the consequence of history. Furthermore, during slavery they sometimes used blacks as overseers to implement the will of the master. Many African American see black conservatives as a tool of racism.....to be used as mouth pieces to say things and do things that whites would be seen as racist for doing. So blacks are a little more sophisticated than simply going of the color of those who are in support of something.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 12-17-2014 at 09:10 AM..
Do you really believe that? One rule was "no chokeholds".
Yes, I believe that. The police are not able to pass laws like no selling cigarettes.
He did not use a chokehold. Anyway, that is under investigation internally since it's a police policy issue and not a legal one - unless that has eneded; I'm not sure.
"Pantaleo is not out of woods since he now faces the prospect of command discipline and an Internal Affairs Bureau probe, said police officials. Police investigators will be closely looking at whether Pantaleo used excessive force, including a chokehold that is against NYPD protocol, said one law enforcement official. " Eric Garner chokehold case: NYPD Officer Daniel Pantaleo doesn't face charges - Newsday
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Originally Posted by pknopp
So maybe you can see this is not a black/white issue. Its an issue of "one set.of rules for you, another for me".".
I don't like two sets of rules, but unless you show a case of a wealthy or white guy that was caught selling loose cigarettes multiple times and then had nothing happen, then this isn't an example of two sets of rules.
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Originally Posted by pknopp
As was "no chokeholds".
Again, it wasn't a chokehold and the "no chokeholds" is a department policy, not a law. I can be fired from my job for doing something that is against policy but still not against the law.
It might not be a black white thing.....but HISTORY makes it a black white thing. Blacks would not react to it as a black white thing if not being programmed by a history of it being a black white thing. That is human nature. When a liar speaks....it will be assumed a lie...even it is the truth. Such is the consequence of history. Furthermore, during slavery they sometimes used blacks as overseers to implement the will of the master. Many African American see black conservatives as a tool of racism.....to be used as mouth pieces to say things and do things that whites would be seen as racist for doing. So blacks are a little more sophisticated than simply going of the color of those who are in support of something.
All I can add is maybe you should turn on a light and not worry about the bogeyman in the closet and consider the actual threat a little more seriously.
All the slaveowners have been dead a very long time.
Yes, I believe that. The police are not able to pass laws like no selling cigarettes.
He did not use a chokehold. Anyway, that is under investigation internally since it's a police policy issue and not a legal one - unless that has eneded; I'm not sure.
You are wrong as it's going to be a citizens issue after all the lawsuits are filed. Luckily the district attorney has no influence over them.
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I don't like two sets of rules, but unless you show a case of a wealthy or white guy that was caught selling loose cigarettes multiple times and then had nothing happen, then this isn't an example of two sets of rules.
You don't have a problem with it and its implications or you would have addressed my point.
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Again, it wasn't a chokehold and the "no chokeholds" is a department policy, not a law. I can be fired from my job for doing something that is against policy but still not against the law.
We all saw the video.
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