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Old 02-25-2015, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,842,681 times
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If you do not see from your post I quoted then I think you are being disingenuous regarding the subject.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:59 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,778,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
It is a psychological problem, period. I am not saying defect because that infers a judgment, but we can call it an abnormality, because about 99.999% of the people born with penises are psychologically cool with being dudes and 99.999% of the folks born with vajayjays are cool with being chicks. Thus, a person born with a penis but really just feeling like a girl in their mind, yeah, that's not normal and lies at the very far end of the distribution curve of gender identity.

But it's purely psychological. Absolutely, no two ways about it. Having a penis and thinking you're really a girl on the inside is no different than having a penis and thinking you're really Julius Caesar on the inside. And the GCS doesn't give you working versions of the other gender's genitalia, it gives you an approximation/facsimile of them that tricks your brain into thinking OK cool, now you're the proper gender. Not saying it doesn't work and all, but chopping a penis off and creating faux vagina facsimile does not create a woman, it creates the genital illusion necessary to convince the individual that they are a woman. In sum - it's a medical procedure to induce a desired psychological effect as a solution to a purely psychological condition.
How do you know it's purely psychological? We have documented evidence that shows transsexuality is likely caused by a cross-wiring of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalus in fetal development. All embryos start as female, so it shouldn't be that shocking that occasionally the body continues to transition to the other gender, but the brain doesn't develop the same way.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:00 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,778,898 times
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Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
If you do not see from your post I quoted then I think you are being disingenuous regarding the subject.
How am I being disingenuous?
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,087 posts, read 9,842,681 times
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If you do not see from your post I quoted then I think you are being disingenuous regarding the subject.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR
8,802 posts, read 8,900,938 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wynternight View Post
16 Myths About Gender Confirmation Surgery

Sadly the people who need to read this the most are the ones who will likely ignore it but here's a few very powerful quotes:

2. ‘These people need therapy, not surgery.’

I have been over this before. They tried for decades to change people’s gender identities, the same way they tried to change sexual orientation. Drugs. Therapy. Electroshock therapy. Lobotomies. Institutionalization.
It doesn’t work.

11. ‘I’m actually a feline trapped in a human’s body. Can I get can surgery to make me a cat?’

Also known as the “I think I’m funny, but I’m not†answer. Generally used by guys who watch South Park.
When people use this argument, they assume that transgender people are mentally ill (they’re not), assume it’s a delusion that can be cured (wrong), and ignores one key fact:
People can naturally be mentally hardwired to identify as male or female. Sometimes the wiring and the equipment don’t synch up during development.
We have 40-plus years of neuroscience research basically telling us gender identity and body image are written early on in development, and sometimes they don’t match.
People, however, do not naturally identify as a cat or other non-human animal.

15. ‘It doesn’t change your DNA,’

This is irrelevant. There are lots of intersex people whose identities vary from their chromosomes.
The relevant part of the discussion is whether GCS is medically necessary (it is in the opinion of everyone who matters) and if it significantly improves quality of life (it does).
Explain to me how someone born as a male was meant to be born as a female.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:17 AM
 
13,303 posts, read 7,873,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Explain to me how someone born as a male was meant to be born as a female.
Frankengender.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,758,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTHokieFan View Post
Explain to me how someone born as a male was meant to be born as a female.
Nothing is 'meant'. You are the result of a process.

You receive your chromosomes from your parents. *All* of those chromosomes are involved in producing you, and they *all* interact as development proceeds. You may or may not receive the "normal" complement of those chromosomes. Those chromosomes may or may not have mutations when you receive them. They may or may not mutate after fertilization. There may or may not be problems with how those chromosomes are "read", and how any misreadings affect fetal development, including the fetal brain and fetal hormonal systems. There may or may not be problems with the mother's hormonal responses to fertilization and subsequent fetal development. There may or may not be problems with the non-hormonal uterine environment.

The amazing thing is really that, for the overwhelming majority of us, development, including sexual development, goes right. It is an incredibly complex system, involving a huge number of cellular interactions and feedback loops, with many opportunities for a departure from the expected course of events.

If you are genuinely interested, you could google for yourself - try "fetal sexual development". This is not something that can be explained in a post of reasonable length.

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-25-2015 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:36 AM
 
13,966 posts, read 5,630,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
Nonsense. While people arguing they shouldn't have to pay for it does come up, that's not the reason most people dislike transgenders. They don't like them, because they can't understand how anyone can not be happy with their assigned gender. And if you're not happy with it, you must be a horrible, screwed up person.
If you asked 1,000 random people if they care even a little about transgendered people, GCS or whatever, probably half of them would need you to explain what transgenderism even is. That's the first point. If you then asked them how much they care if it never impacts taxes or regulations, you'd find the overwhelming majority of folks would simply not care at all.

Now, does that mean people want to associate with the dude wearing women's clothing and clothing who last month grew breasts, or the chick who is trying to grow a beard? No, but forcing associations is not tolerance, it's tyranny. So the abnormal (not meant pejoratively, but as "outside the norm") in the case of transgenderism have the same issues with associations that anyone with an easily observable abnormality has. Someone with a really large birthmark on their face has association issues. A woman with really hairy arms has association issues. Nerdy, geeky people with poor social skills have association issues. There's millions of variations on the theme. None of them are more or less special than anyone else.

I am making no judgment on the person with the abnormality, but being unhappy with one's gender still does not require my participation, funding, forced association or anything of the sort. I retain the right to have my own opinions and form whatever associations I choose to as well as NOT FORM whatever associations I choose not to.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:36 AM
 
920 posts, read 634,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero View Post
If one wants to call it a psychological defect, sure. I think it's far more complicated than your standard mental health issues though. But I don't see people demonizing other people with mental health issues to the extreme extent transgenders are.
I think the reason you perceive "demonization" of gender dysmorphic people (imo) is that they have joined forces with the GBL coalition in an effort to force society into accepting their reality as the truth. How can anyone argue that a person with a vagina, who binds their breasts is a man/male? That defies logic on every level! If the larger society cannot forgo logic and reason and accept this reality, then they are berated as "haters," "bigots," "ignorant," "science-deniers," "fundamentalists," etc.

My brother is schizophrenic. He thinks he hears voices and is God. He thinks he can control the war in Iraq with his mind. There is no coalition that pushes his reality on the rest of society so that we are required to indulge his beliefs or endure a barrage of character assassinations.

The gender dysphoric coalition has formed to demand special treatment in public schools and private businesses. This special treatment that gender dysphoric individuals demand requires everyone else to "cater" to their reality. We are demeaned because "we" are the problem when it comes to sharing a restroom with a man who "feels like a woman" or a girl who "feels like a boy."

Offering accommodations, such as a unisex bathroom is not enough for the gender dysphoric coalition. That accommodation does not equate to acceptance or embracing their reality, and THAT is the ultimate goal.

I do feel that gender dysphoria is a mental health issue in the same vein as anorexia/bulimia or body integrity identity disorder. The gender dysphoric coalition is riding on the coattails of the Gay/Lesbian coattails and using the same arguments/tactics they have used to demand special treatment.

So yeah, you have the majority of society being bullied and forced to "embrace" the reality of the gender dysphoric coalition and acquiesce to their demands for special treatment....and shut up and go along or be the target of ridicule and abuse.

Where you see "demonization" of gender dysphoric people, I see "demonization" BY gender dysphoric people of anyone who doesn't "go along to get along" and those who voice their dissent.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,769,894 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by FKD19124 View Post
chromosomes don't lie. you are either born male or female.
trans-gender people are people with mutilated genitalia.
Cher gave birth to a daughter not a son named chaz!
Okay, so what if you are born neither XX or XY? All intersex people are born with a chromosome combinations other than XX or XY. (And being intersex occurs with a lot more frequency in transgender people than in non-transgender people.)
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