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I will refuse to provide or accept services to gays.
That is irrelevant if I own a business or not. I will protest not to discriminate against gays, rather I will protest for my right to choose who I conduct business with.
Basically, unless my refusal to conduct business endangers some-one's life, it's my choice if I even engage in business at all or not.
Second part of protest is that I belong to religious order that is called Pastafarian, and I believe that the Holly Spaghetti Monster that has touched me with his noodly appendage forbids me from from providing services to certain people. If I feel weird around them, I don't have to associate with em.
Now, if I forced to conduct business with those I do not wish to conduct business with, I will refuse to conduct business period and become a burden on the tax payer.
If you have read The Gospel of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, then you know His Noodly Goodness has no prejudice against homosexuality.
It is relevant if you own a business or not. The customer certainly has the right to take their business elsewhere, for any reason.
Gays CHOOSE to pack chocolate and rub their sausage links together. No one puts a gun to their head and DNA, I don't care what drudged-up research tries to suggest, has nothing to do with it. They CHOOSE to do that, the same way a prostitute chooses to sell her body to a man for money--do we celebrate that?
Having to suppress your inner-urges sucks, pardon the pun, but it's something everyone has to do at some point, straight people included. As a straight man--and by the way, that heterosexuals are called "straight" by itself implies that the given behavior is more normal, as opposed to "crooked"--but we straight men who are married are constantly seeing other attractive women in our daily lives. Purely biologically speaking, we want nothing more than to take those attractive women to the nearest and nicest hotel room and swap sweat all over each other's bare bodies until we can barely wiggle afterwards. We are BORN to feel this way, to see an attractive woman and to want her that way is the most natural thing in the world.
HOWEVER, we don't act on those urges, because we're married, and because to do that would be wrong, NO MATTER how natural it may feel purely biologically-speaking. We may be "born" to want those other women, and it may be natural, but it's also wrong, and we have to suppress that animal desire. Just because the behavior you are acting on is because you think you were "born this way" is no excuse for doing it if the act is amoral.
"Spiritual" beliefs DOES influence personal or any associations. And, what you call public service IS a private enterprise.
Public Service = Government service, where you have not right to personal associations choices because THE SERVICE IS TAX PAID FOR BY EVERYONE. which you obviously don't understand,
You seem to think that YOU are entitled to a persons PRIVATE BUSINESS AND HER LABOR. You are not. They have a right IF they want to give their service to whomever, amongst the public
YOU are not entitled to anything someone has and does not want to give to you or associate with you.
In Christianity YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERED SINNERS.
And that is what this person is basing their decision on WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, because you are a selfish BULLY trying to bully your way with people.
Bullies usually end up one way when they pick on the wrong persons. THAT IS WHY SODOMITES use courts. They are coward bullies who normally would be told to take a hike or get their teeth rearranged.
Keep using the courts to bully people via unjust laws. It never ends well for bullies. I got a funny feeling you as a bully had your face rearranged a couple of times.
Where does Jesus tell us not to associate with sinners?
And, how could this person be basing her decision on this "commandment" when she did associate with them for nine years prior?
As for the rest, I'm thinking you missed the Sunday school lesson on turning the other cheek.
Ok listen you knee jerk reactionists....I work about 80 hours a week, and today was extra trying, so my tired old brain was not interpreting "white....lunch.....counters" as a normal 9 a.m. coffee induced hyper racially sensitive brain would interpret it. I was trying to figure out why only white people would be counting lunches. Oh the horror.
I'm sure they teach US History in school still, but I'm sure it's been way too many years since I've been there, and I'm sure I did not pay attention when they taught it. Nevertheless, just remember there is way more History to teach now than when you were kids, and the time within to teach it remains the same, so the schools have to pick and choose what they present.
As cranky as some of you are, I imagine there is probably another 100 years or so of History added to the books since you've been in any classes, and history class is only about an hour, so your history and a modern kids history are 2 very different things. Think about it.
My son is learning robotics, science, space and mathematics, so if they are indeed still teaching about "white lunch counters' it's probably of no interest to him, and he probably wouldn't care since he goes to a primarily all black magnet school and a past that old wouldn't interest him nor the black students there, since that occurred during a time they could not relate to.
(This isn't directed at you suzy q, as your question seemed sincere)
That being said, are you serious???!!! NO, I do not compare the "White Lunch Counter" to the Old Lady and the Gay Guys Flowers case at all. That is utterly ridiculous. To compare the oppression of blacks and their treatment back then to the treatment of gays in modern society is totally ignorant. A little old lady wouldn't sell flowers to a gay dude for his wedding, and you're going to compare that to blacks being beaten, sold, burned, murdered, raped and treated like animals?
Gimme a break. If you need an agenda that bad, your life is going to be a long antagonizing display of misery. Please get help with your coping skills.
The Torah states: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.
That is not a judgment. That is a clear statement of what constitutes immorality and sin. It is among a list of sins that include incest and beastiality. It places no judgment on anyone. It states clearly what constitutes a sin. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with a lifestyle and there was no intention on the part of the business owner of hatred or to cause pain. She cried and hugged the person...how eeeeviiil.
You hate religion because it provides an unequivocal statement of morality. It does not bend with the shifting fads of society. It does not allow for moral equivalence. It is a foundation of moral principles.
You HATE that people uphold those morals because you choose not to and you can't handle the reality that homosexuality is a sin. Sorry, this hurts your feelings, but bullying others, belittling their faith in a moral code doesn't change that.
I love how you belittle the bible in one breath and then preach from it in the next...treating others like you want to be treated....
There is no judgment here, anymore than there is judgment on a person who steals. Stealing is a sin. Should we not pass judgment as to the crime of theft because the thief feels judged?
Nothing Barronelle did had anything to do with punishment or judgment. She stated her moral principles and apologized for being unable to perform a service that would betray her religious beliefs.
God will judge us all. He provided a guideline for us to follow in our lives. To do that, sometimes it means upholding principles that hurt other people's feelings because of their moral compass. That is how life works.
Isn't your wish for Karma a judgment on those with whom you disagree?
Im a man who lives by treating every equal because I don't see anyone better or worse than me unless they attempt to hurt me or my family. The bible isn't meant to be taken literally. its meant more to guide those who cant find the path of righteousness. And please don't confuse morals with beliefs. While a good majority merge both into one, its not the same.
but going back to your original post regarding the "torah": did you know Judaism, Christianity and Islam all began essentially in the same place? ones book had an angry god but this god transformed eventually to a PG-13 rated god. Islams Quran is essentially the old book, just hasn't changed and yet we hate each other. What's my point? my point being is no ones belief is right. Don't take your book as literal but more as a guide.
and no, I don't follow the bible, Quran or anything else. I just read them all and have decided for myself the idea of being nice to others regardless if they disagree with me. As for religion not bending to society... have you ever heard of the crusades? have you ever read history? mans done more killing on BEHALF of religion. you could have 10 world wars and they pale in comparison to killing in the name of faith. Catholicism did change because they were losing members. Granted Christianity is still slowly evolving BECAUSE of social expectations. People don't want 2nd century barbaric ideologies anymore. We aren't peasants who worship the sun as god and the moon as goddess. And the problem is, most religions are stuck in this relic type of mindset.
As far as the lady in this story goes, she sold him items before and from what I assume, didn't know he was gay. Once she found out she just flatout denied him. That's just wrong on many level. If you can't see the wrong in this then something is wrong with you.
the irony I find in life is that the loudest religious people who cry out "sinner! god hates your kind!" are probably the ones who are(according to their religion) guaranteed a spot in hell. because they likely have committed more sins than most.
Are these Jews/Muslims/Atheist proven sinners?????? IF yes.....then her doctrines state she has to stay away from them. End of story.
"Sinners?" Christianity and Judaism list a couple people in the sinner category you are to stay away from. Help them yes, outside of that YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH THEM IN ANY FORM ......
NOT EVEN COMMERCE(sinners money is a NO, NO too)......which if argued in court can be won regardless what unjust laws are put forth, because at the end of the day:
GOVERNMENT CANNOT INTERFERE WITH RELIGIOUS BELIEFs. So Petunia the faux legal mind here on the forum could be blown right out of the court room with her commerce argument.
The First Amendment prohibits the federal government from making a law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".
So Petunias "commerce law" is doing what? I would wipe courtroom floor with Petunias argument.
"FREEDOM OF RELIGION" is a closed end statement and cannot be tampered with NO MATTER how Liberal Judges and dimwit lawyers want to put a spin on it.
When The Rabbi Jesus the Christitans mentor/spiritual leader went ballistics in the Temple of the because the COMMERCE(dirty money) being conducted on hallowed ground, he was admonishing his followers not to conduct business or buy(DIRTY MONEY) on hallowed ground, IT IS A SIN. Again I would wipe the court room floor with Petunias commerce law argument, because she/he/it has NO IDEA............what Christian/Jewish SPIRITUALITY is all about.
It is best to live and let live. Sodomites want to live and be left alone but they don't want to do the same for others because they are bullies and whinny selfish b*
The laws regarding public accommodation are clear.
Y'all can jump up and down all you want, it has already been determined that the woman discriminated against these customers.
"(Reuters) - A judge in Washington state on Wednesday ruled that a florist who refused to sell flower arrangements for a gay couple's wedding violated state anti-discrimination law, court records show."
honestly, im all for free speech. let her deny anyone her business. But im also for people spreading the word out there and letting society judge her business as they see fit. As newtons theory of law of motion states:" every every action theres an equal and opposite reaction"
Ok listen you knee jerk reactionists....I work about 80 hours a week, and today was extra trying, so my tired old brain was not interpreting "white....lunch.....counters" as a normal 9 a.m. coffee induced hyper racially sensitive brain would interpret it. I was trying to figure out why only white people would be counting lunches. Oh the horror.
I'm sure they teach US History in school still, but I'm sure it's been way too many years since I've been there, and I'm sure I did not pay attention when they taught it. Nevertheless, just remember there is way more History to teach now than when you were kids, and the time within to teach it remains the same, so the schools have to pick and choose what they present.
As cranky as some of you are, I imagine there is probably another 100 years or so of History added to the books since you've been in any classes, and history class is only about an hour, so your history and a modern kids history are 2 very different things. Think about it.
My son is learning robotics, science, space and mathematics, so if they are indeed still teaching about "white lunch counters' it's probably of no interest to him, and he probably wouldn't care since he goes to a primarily all black magnet school and a past that old wouldn't interest him nor the black students there, since that occurred during a time they could not relate to.
(This isn't directed at you suzy q, as your question seemed sincere)
That being said, are you serious???!!! NO, I do not compare the "White Lunch Counter" to the Old Lady and the Gay Guys Flowers case at all. That is utterly ridiculous. To compare the oppression of blacks and their treatment back then to the treatment of gays in modern society is totally ignorant. A little old lady wouldn't sell flowers to a gay dude for his wedding, and you're going to compare that to blacks being beaten, sold, burned, murdered, raped and treated like animals?
Gimme a break. If you need an agenda that bad, your life is going to be a long antagonizing display of misery. Please get help with your coping skills.
SS
Please point out where that comparison has been made. I certainly have not seen it.
What is being compared is that businesses were eventually not allowed to discriminate against race by refusing to serve black customers. Do you see the similarity between that and a Washington florist being told by her state's Attorney General that she may not discriminate against sexual orientation by refusing to serve a gay customer?
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