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The law has nothing to do with whom individuals may "associate". Do you not understand the difference between a business offering services to the public and an individual's interpersonal relationships?
"Spiritual" beliefs DOES influence personal or any associations. And, what you call public service IS a private enterprise.
Public Service = Government service, where you have not right to personal associations choices because THE SERVICE IS TAX PAID FOR BY EVERYONE. which you obviously don't understand,
You seem to think that YOU are entitled to a persons PRIVATE BUSINESS AND HER LABOR. You are not. They have a right IF they want to give their service to whomever, amongst the public
YOU are not entitled to anything someone has and does not want to give to you or associate with you.
In Christianity YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERED SINNERS.
And that is what this person is basing their decision on WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, because you are a selfish BULLY trying to bully your way with people.
Bullies usually end up one way when they pick on the wrong persons. THAT IS WHY SODOMITES use courts. They are coward bullies who normally would be told to take a hike or get their teeth rearranged.
Keep using the courts to bully people via unjust laws. It never ends well for bullies. I got a funny feeling you as a bully had your face rearranged a couple of times.
She did nothing wrong and has no reason to admit she did and promise to violate her religion in the future just to make a living. The AG and state in this case is the Bigot. We all have rights and do not give them up to make a living.
You don't have the right to not service someone because they're gay.
You have the right to not service someone and not give a reason.
The troglodyte will get her comeuppance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AL84
She did not discriminate. She followed her lawful right to her religion. We must be inclusive in this country and allow people to have different life styles and values than we do. To the left you talk about being inclusive and to the right you defend a divisive person. Someone being gay has no impact on anyone else, therefore nobody is forcing a lifestyle on them.We cannot force our views or lifestyle on others. It is bigoted to do so. Live and let live. Freedom to all.Exactly. Freedom to all to have whatever sexual orientation they want and not have others behave in bigoted ways towards them.
I would suggest she post a sign stating she does not want homosexuals business and that should take care of it.That'll get her a fine a lot bigger than $2,000.
The law regulating commerce states she cannot not service someone because of their sexual orientation. Just like the law states you cannot service someone because they're black, brown, or yellow.
** While I personally refuse to disclose my personal feelings about homosexuals, I recognize it's their right to live their life how they want to. It has no impact on my life, therefore my opinion doesn't matter. Live and let live.**
The Torah states: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.
That is not a judgment. That is a clear statement of what constitutes immorality and sin. It is among a list of sins that include incest and beastiality. It places no judgment on anyone. It states clearly what constitutes a sin. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with a lifestyle and there was no intention on the part of the business owner of hatred or to cause pain. She cried and hugged the person...how eeeeviiil.
You hate religion because it provides an unequivocal statement of morality. It does not bend with the shifting fads of society. It does not allow for moral equivalence. It is a foundation of moral principles.
You HATE that people uphold those morals because you choose not to and you can't handle the reality that homosexuality is a sin. Sorry, this hurts your feelings, but bullying others, belittling their faith in a moral code doesn't change that.
I love how you belittle the bible in one breath and then preach from it in the next...treating others like you want to be treated....
There is no judgment here, anymore than there is judgment on a person who steals. Stealing is a sin. Should we not pass judgment as to the crime of theft because the thief feels judged?
Nothing Barronelle did had anything to do with punishment or judgment. She stated her moral principles and apologized for being unable to perform a service that would betray her religious beliefs.
God will judge us all. He provided a guideline for us to follow in our lives. To do that, sometimes it means upholding principles that hurt other people's feelings because of their moral compass. That is how life works.
Isn't your wish for Karma a judgment on those with whom you disagree?
Nah. I dislike organized religion because it has nothing at all to do with morals. Genocide is good but two men lying together is an abomination.
It's followers tend to spout what they are taught rather than think for themselves.
Just go read the Bible before you argue the merits
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarqCider
I don't get religious people. you say, she says its morally wrong and she wont sell flowers to a gay couple. many of you here back her up. Doesn't something in that little black book you preach about say something along the lines of treating others like you like to be treated and let judgment of others fall upon your "Jesus/god"?
this is why I hate religion. People use it to be judge dredd of others. who makes you to be judge, jury and executioner of what your deity wants?
disagree with the lifestyle all you want, dislike someone for their skin all you want, for their clothes they wear all you want but stop trying to be your deities left hand and passing judgment and punishment upon those who you and your little book disagree with (even if it doesn't necessarily say it).
then again I firmly believe those(especially some of you here) who pass judgment and pull this crap will eventually end up in a place worse in the long term. or at least I hope so. Karma, that I believe in.
I might agree with folks who try to act thug, but I wouldn't stop selling it to them. they can have multiple husbands,wives, whatever and I wont judge them.
But if they plan to hurt others by say, building a homemade bomb, then yes I would stop them. I think some of you need to figure out the difference and then come back to this thread.
Christians and Jews for that matter if they adhere to the Bible are not to associate in any way shape or form with "Sinners." How is she treating them bad? By refusing to have anything to do with them????
That is not treating them bad. THAT IS NOT TREATING THEM ANYWAY AT ALL. She is a free entity making a choice just because THEY DON'T LIKE IT so what??? who the hell do they actually think they are they, they have the right to anything this woman has if she wants to not acknowledge them????
This is why sodomites will never be accepted not only are they sinners, but they are bullies as well.
LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU.........THAT IS HER CHOICE................don't like it. Suck it up.(No pun intended.)
The Torah states: Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.
That is not a judgment. That is a clear statement of what constitutes immorality and sin. It is among a list of sins that include incest and beastiality. It places no judgment on anyone. It states clearly what constitutes a sin. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with a lifestyle and there was no intention on the part of the business owner of hatred or to cause pain. She cried and hugged the person...how eeeeviiil.
You hate religion because it provides an unequivocal statement of morality. It does not bend with the shifting fads of society. It does not allow for moral equivalence. It is a foundation of moral principles.
You HATE that people uphold those morals because you choose not to and you can't handle the reality that homosexuality is a sin. Sorry, this hurts your feelings, but bullying others, belittling their faith in a moral code doesn't change that.
I love how you belittle the bible in one breath and then preach from it in the next...treating others like you want to be treated....
There is no judgment here, anymore than there is judgment on a person who steals. Stealing is a sin. Should we not pass judgment as to the crime of theft because the thief feels judged?
Nothing Barronelle did had anything to do with punishment or judgment. She stated her moral principles and apologized for being unable to perform a service that would betray her religious beliefs.
God will judge us all. He provided a guideline for us to follow in our lives. To do that, sometimes it means upholding principles that hurt other people's feelings because of their moral compass. That is how life works.
Isn't your wish for Karma a judgment on those with whom you disagree?
Excellent, excellent, excellent.
Since when did homosexual BEHAVIOR become a protected class of people whose behavior you can't call out, even in an appropriate non-judgmental sort of way? Are we wrong for telling a person who engages in prostitution--hey, I love you IN SPITE OF your choices, but I don't condone them. Do we not tell someone whom we know is cheating on their spouse that you are disappointed in their behavior, even as you love them IN SPITE of it? It's BEHAVIOR. Everyone is conveniently leaving out how Jesus, although he loved on people in spite of their sin, he still called it out, saying things such as "I forgive you. Go, and SIN NO MORE."
Gee whiz, those who claim to be of the position "what 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes is their own business" don't really believe that, else why do we butt in when 2 spouses are being physically abusive to each other, even if that's how they choose to settle their differences? Whatever happened to "hey, I'm not for that sort of thing at all, but if they want to bruise each other's faces, that's their prerogative." Heck, I personally think it IS their prerogative and with such domestic violence cases, where the 2 are consenting to handle their disagreements in that very immature way, I nonetheless regards such as a private family matter, regardless of what the law says. I don't think how Ray Rice and his wife relate to each other is anybody else's business, if that's how the two of them choose to live, and I think the law should stay out of it. Just don't ask me to AGREE with and CELEBRATE it, because I'm not. Don't force me to do business with you if I don't want to.
You're talking about gender, not sexual orientation.
But they don't. Plenty of businesses in the south wanted to serve whites only, but we all know how that eventually turned out.
No. Not paying one's bills is not a protected class.
I was thinking the same about you.
Ok, you were right. I read your link about the sexual orientation discrimination laws from Washington and I stand corrected. However, I still believe a private company should be allowed to refuse service to anyone they see fit not because I am against gays, but because I am for freedom and against government interference. It appears as Washington has overruled the whole "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." And by doing so, they have taken away a particular right from a business owner.
That does not mean that I think it's kind of silly that the old lady wouldn't sell flowers to the dude because he was gay and getting married. I think that's just stupid, but Baptists and their hypocrisy doesn't change my opinion on preserving rights for everyone. There is nothing in the Constitution saying you can't by a hypocrite. At least not yet I suppose.
In any event, in case you haven't figured it out, I'm both for the right of the gay guy getting married, as well as for the old lady not selling him the flowers based on her religious views. It has to work both ways or you simply breed animosity.
"Spiritual" beliefs DOES influence personal or any associations. And, what you call public service IS a private enterprise.
Public Service = Government service, where you have not right to personal associations choices because THE SERVICE IS TAX PAID FOR BY EVERYONE. which you obviously don't understand,
You seem to think that YOU are entitled to a persons PRIVATE BUSINESS AND HER LABOR. You are not. They have a right IF they want to give their service to whomever, amongst the public
YOU are not entitled to anything someone has and does not want to give to you or associate with you.
In Christianity YOU ARE NOT TO ASSOCIATE WITH CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSIDERED SINNERS.
And that is what this person is basing their decision on WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, because you are a selfish BULLY trying to bully your way with people.
Bullies usually end up one way when they pick on the wrong persons. THAT IS WHY SODOMITES use courts. They are coward bullies who normally would be told to take a hike or get their teeth rearranged.
Keep using the courts to bully people via unjust laws. It never ends well for bullies. I got a funny feeling you as a bully had your face rearranged a couple of times.
What do Christianity and personal associations have to do with public enterprise? Nothing.
A flower shop open to the public is a public enterprise, not a private one.
No, I can't say that I ever met an individual disturbed enough to challenge me to a fist fight.
Really? Most men think about "rubbing their sausages together"? I did not know that. But God or genetics or whoever made them that way, and it's not a choice, you say?
Now you're just being stupid. You know good and well I meant his description of how men think when they see an attractive woman, but you gave it a good ol' college girl try.
Maybe you only remember the parts of his post that excited you personally? I blocked the whole sausage rubbing comment out of my mind, also due to genetics.
This has been a fun and spirited conversation however.
What do Christianity and personal associations have to do with public enterprise? Nothing.
A flower shop open to the public is not a public enterprise, not a private one.
No, I can't say that I ever met an individual disturbed enough to challenge me to a fist fight.
A public entity is one that is operated by government, thus OWNED by the public. Public Enterprise is an oxymoron. I agree that no public operation can discriminate against anyone, since it is basically owned by everyone.
This is a PRIVATE business, owned by a private individual, who happens to be a devout Christian. In the real world, her right to freely engage in her faith should not be impeded by state laws intended to provide special privileges to a select class of citizens.
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Just go read the Bible before you argue the merits
