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The American flag is the flag of the country we live in. Like it or not, that's a fact. You can like or dislike some of the history of the country, but the stars and stripes remains our flag, and as such, should be flown on federal land within the country
You are talking out of 2 sides of your mouth and is the definition of hypocrisy in my view. Let me clarify. You stated you don't believe the confederate flag should be flown on public property, state or federal land because:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeyJude514
I agree, people should be allowed to fly the Confederate flag for whatever reasons they want on their own property. But it should not be flown over government buildings or on state or federal land. Government entities should fly the U.S. flag and the state flag, period. The Confederate flag has no place in places that are owned by all Americans, including many who find it a symbol of human oppression.
Others can say the same to you....like or not, if you live in a southern state, you "can like or dislike some of the history" behind the confederate flag, but regardless, it should be allowed to be flown on public land of (insert southern state name) because it's a part of their history/heritage.
As for the symbol of the Confederate flag, in your own words: "has no place in places that are owned by all Americans, including many who find it a symbol of human oppressions", well, I have a feeling some Native Americans would also feel offended by your view of the American flag. And the fact that northern states under the American flag were major owners of slaves and heavily involved in the slave trade up north:
Not "human oppression enough for you?" to not want to fly the Confederate flag on public property but it's fine for the American flag? See the hypocrisy in your view?
So again, round and round we go to my original point once again via me playing devil's advocate.....the dangerous can of worms of banning this/that because people like you are offended by certain things, pick what you like/dislike not based on any consistent logic, while others feel strongly the other way...... and why should your view on what you find offensive be the begin/end all, and vice versa? Who decides?
You are correct that atrocities have been committed under the auspices of the American flag, as has been the case with every flag of every nation.
But not every flag represents at its core a philosophy of racism. The American flag does not. The Confederate flag does, and always has.
We may have fallen short of it throughout history, but at least the American flat still represents a positive ideal. We tried to right some wrongs under that flag, at least. We stopped systemic racism and slavery under that flag, at least.
Not so with the Confederate flag. That flag always was, is, and always will be unapologetically linked with a societal vision of white supremacy.
And there is your difference.
You can have an appreciation of the Confederate symbols and society within the context of history. You can even be a white supremacist and salute the flag every morning in your home. You can remember your Southern ancestors, even as you recognize that core aspects of the philosophy they fought for were wrong. But we could at least not put it up on government buildings, which are to represent a better version of society than the one that the Confederate flag stood for.
Sorry. The American flag is just as "racist" and "bad" as the Confederate flag -- if not more so (because of the Indians.)
Wait, forget the "if not more so."
The American flag is MORE racist, because the South would not have had slavery if America didn't have it when this country was founded.
There's no way around that.
And, in addition to the Indians, you can add Vietnamese and Filipinos to those who have colorable cases against the Stars and Stripes.
America committed major war crimes/genocide in the Philippines, in case you didn't know that.
The American flag is the flag of the country we live in. Like it or not, that's a fact. You can like or dislike some of the history of the country, but the stars and stripes remains our national flag, and as such, should be flown on federal land within the country.
Statues of our past presidents are not symbols, they are representations of our past presidents. It's kind of sad that this needs to be explained.
It's kind of sad to have to explain that if the American flag should be retained, so should the Confederate flag.
This is getting ridiculous! People need to think for a second before posting. The American flag, and state flags are the OFFICIAL agreed upon symbols that represent our states/country. If someone is so offended by our OFFICIAL agreed upon flag, then they are free to start a campaign to create a new OFFICIAL flag to replace the old "offensive" one, and then the new flag will be the ONLY one flying on public buildings.
lets just pretend that the confederate flag, under its many names and variations, didn't represent a belief, as outlined by the articles of secession of multiple states, that one of the main reasons for secession was slavery. let us pretend that the cornerstone speech, delivered by the vice president of the confederacy, didn't state, "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea (all men are created equal); its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition."
let us pretend that mississippi didn't adopt the stars and bars as part of its state flag until 1894, 4 years after disenfranchising hundreds of thousands of blacks with restrictive voting laws and near the beginning of the jim crow era. let us pretend that south carolina, the first state to secede, didn't begin flying the confederate flag from their state house until after the civil right act of 1960 was signed into law and georgia didn't add the stars and bars to its state flag until after the supreme court ruling on brown vs the board of education. lets just pretend that this flag hasn't been used as a means of intimidating black people in this country all the way back to the late 19th century.
even without all of that aforementioned history, that flag is STILL a symbol of treason and no government entity should be endorsing a symbol from an era in which people were seeking to destroy this union under the laughable guise of, "states rights."
I don't think anyone liberal or conservative can deny that. Things like this go in waves...we usually find a new topic every 3-4 months or so. Granted, a lot of our topics lately have involved white on black race stuff (Treyvon, Ferguson, Donald Sterling, flag, etc). I'd say the '10s are shaping up to be the decade of race.
When the television tells people to buy XYZ .... that's what they do. When it tells them to become outraged, they do that as well.
A portion of the public aren't swayed so easily, but a larger segment are easily manipulated, and think what they are told to think, without giving it a second thought.
Lol! That flag is everywhere that racists are whether they admit it or not. Just like the swastika.
"Southern Pride" was all about the right to own slaves. This is a century overdue.
Honestly, I just don't even understand how anyone can scapegoat/rationalize this symbolism into "southern pride." None of my family or friend who fought in Korea, Iraq, Vietnam or WWII even flew an American flag for "pride." And NO ONE up here flies the Yankee flag which would be the flag w 32 stars as opposed to 50. So why do people clutch to their confederate flags.
Even if we pretend that "southern pride" and the Confederate flag are not about racism/slavery then what *is* it about? Christians? Denying abortions? Increased poverty and living off welfare?
Clutch your muskets and grieve if you must, but no one is stopping you from hanging one in your own home, just outside of public buildings.
I don't think anyone liberal or conservative can deny that. Things like this go in waves...we usually find a new topic every 3-4 months or so. Granted, a lot of our topics lately have involved white on black race stuff (Treyvon, Ferguson, Donald Sterling, flag, etc). I'd say the '10s are shaping up to be the decade of race.
Very true. And frankly, as a well educated white liberal female from "the north" even I am getting sick of hearing about it!! When people like me are getting compassion fatigue, it's time to move on soon to another social topic. My patience is wearing thin for veterans, gays and blacks because it's the same conversation over and over and.....
This is the second reason why I want that flag to go away. Not only is it obviously offensive to most blacks, but I think that this will facilitate healing in the black community regarding slavery because I am especially "compassion fatigued" on that one especially since no one here has ever been a slave and none of my family ever owned any!
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,330 posts, read 54,419,437 times
Reputation: 40736
Quote:
Originally Posted by neko_mimi
I don't remember them complaining about it a few weeks ago.
Of course we know that it's because their messiah and his favorite race baiter told them to. But I just wanted to hear their excuses as to why they suddenly decided to be outraged.
Funny, I don't remember Nikki Haley or Lindsey Graham (just in case you're ignorant of the fact: NOT liberals) complaining about it a few weeks ago either.
I guess you wouldn't want the truth to interfere with yet another baseless 'liberal this, liberal that' whine, eh? Let's hear your excuses as to why they suddenly decided to be outraged..
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