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The kid who started the OP has taken quite a lot of flak for it... and I'd just like to comment on that:
Putting on my Internet Psychologist hat (I'm not a psychologist... but I am married to one), fact is that lots of people with (for instance) autism spectrum disorders just don't like touching, certain smells, unusual noises, etc. Doesn't make them bad people- many are highly intelligent and very functional in society. Just makes them different (aka weird).
And aren't this kid's sexual preferences his own business? In this day and age? I mean, if here were telling ya'll that he preferred to put his junk in a man's stink hole... he'd be getting plenty of support. But since his particular preferences haven't had a decades-long PR campaign attached... the howler monkeys in here just can't accept his preferences.
The criticism he's receiving here is a pretty good demonstration of how much pressure men are under to conform. Sure it's OK to be gay (at the moment, in some circles)- but if a man's sexuality veers outside the traditional or the heavily campaigned... gawd help him.
And as for the women in this thread... looks to me like most have reacted negatively because they see this kid as devaluing their primary 'currency'. C'mon ladies- open your minds a bit. There's more value in you than just a vagina.
He made the mistake of associating his extraordinary fringe behaviors/revulsions with the MGTOW movement. In fact, as you suggest, he may have a disorder of some type and associating with a 'movement' is more convenient than examining the disorder.
As for MGTOW, fine with me. Both men and women should feel comfortable in rejecting, dating, commitment, marriage, children in their lives.
In a world where women are innocent even if proven guilty and men are guilty even if proven innocent, men have a case for feeling aggrieved. To me, the MGTOW thing isn't surprising in and of itself, but rather that it isn't much more widespread. I am married, and happily so for the last 10 years, but outside the women in my family and colleagues once I have spent a year or so making sure I can make eye contact without being fired, I avoid women. On my bravest day I am extremely wary around women because as a man, I am guilty until proven innocent, and an accusation can come from across the street from a woman I don't even know, and the burden is all on me. When I am walking down a street, I stare at the ground when I pass by women because you never know when you'll run across Ms. Bad Hair Day who decides your neighborly smile/nod is a micro-aggression that made her feel unsafe, blah blah.
And I found out the hard way the last time I dated anyone before meeting my wife. Let a girl move in, gave her a key, blah blah. 18 months later, she's gotta go. Except...no, she isn't leaving she says. My name is only one on the mortgage, it's my house, etc...and yeah, I get told by my lawyer and the police that I should move out so she cannot just make stuff up that I will be arrested for (since they apparently see this all the time), and I can just wait out the official eviction process and hopefully homeowners will cover anything she breaks during the 90 days she got as an implied tenant. And she left on day 83, while I had to live on my sister's sofa. And how did the police come to tell me the options? Because she called the police to tell them I was being violent. I wasn't even there, and was down the street getting a blizzard at DQ. Came home and there they were, waiting to "investigate" my domestic abuse? So I had to leave my home to a psycho, had to be kept away based on her false accusation, and needed almost 3 months to get my life back...because a woman had a bad hair day.
If for any reason my wife was gone from my life, I am for sure going MGTOW. Not because I don't like women/sex/dating/romance, but because I am crap_your_pants scared that the wrong comment, facial expression, or whatever will wreck my life. The government and our society both going so far the other way with the pendulum has made it so not worth it to even try being friendly or sociable with women. It's one big minefield for men, and I can totally understand why MGTOW fellas say bag it to the whole thing. Is it wrong to assume every woman is a rent seeking, axe grinding grievance vampire? Sure, and not just a bit paranoid, I'll stipulate. But right now, in courtrooms all across America are dudes sitting as the defendant in some nonsense they didn't do who are wishing they had been as paranoid, if only...
Its sad you live your life that way. I as a woman could convince myself that because some men are sexists, are physically abusive and rapists that all men are and I would be best to avoid any physical or verbal contact with any man least I be assaulted or raped. If I were to be I'd be scared to death it would be seen as my fault because of the way I dressed or because I had a drink or was out after dark or looked at him the wrong way. But life is too short. I have no desire to date or have any meaningful intimate relationship with a man again. I agree its not worth the trouble but I dont hate men, on the contrary, I dont blame them for my problems and Im not going to live in fear of them and avoid them. But what ever floats ya. Its just sad anyone feels they must live in fear and intimidation of the opposite sex.
Its sad you live your life that way. I as a woman could convince myself that because some men are sexists, are physically abusive and rapists that all men are and I would be best to avoid any physical or verbal contact with any man least I be assaulted or raped. If I were to be I'd be scared to death it would be seen as my fault because of the way I dressed or because I had a drink or was out after dark or looked at him the wrong way. But life is too short. I have no desire to date or have any meaningful intimate relationship with a man again. I agree its not worth the trouble but I dont hate men, on the contrary, I dont blame them for my problems and Im not going to live in fear of them and avoid them. But what ever floats ya. Its just sad anyone feels they must live in fear and intimidation of the opposite sex.
I don't hate women. Love them generally just for being the higher evolution of the human species. I love my wife as much as life itself.
But I am also a man who understand that the societal pendulum has swung way too far the other way in it's efforts to be where it ought to be someday, and today, in the real world, men are guilty until (and even after) they are proven innocent.
I don't think all women are rent-seeking, ax-grinding vultures, but some are, and you don't know ahead of time who is and is not. So MGTOW makes a lot of sense to avoid potential issues. No woman is the cause of any of my problems, and with a healthy does of paranoia and caution, none ever will be. That's the point.
In a world where women are innocent even if proven guilty and men are guilty even if proven innocent, men have a case for feeling aggrieved. To me, the MGTOW thing isn't surprising in and of itself, but rather that it isn't much more widespread. I am married, and happily so for the last 10 years, but outside the women in my family and colleagues once I have spent a year or so making sure I can make eye contact without being fired, I avoid women. On my bravest day I am extremely wary around women because as a man, I am guilty until proven innocent, and an accusation can come from across the street from a woman I don't even know, and the burden is all on me. When I am walking down a street, I stare at the ground when I pass by women because you never know when you'll run across Ms. Bad Hair Day who decides your neighborly smile/nod is a micro-aggression that made her feel unsafe, blah blah.
And I found out the hard way the last time I dated anyone before meeting my wife. Let a girl move in, gave her a key, blah blah. 18 months later, she's gotta go. Except...no, she isn't leaving she says. My name is only one on the mortgage, it's my house, etc...and yeah, I get told by my lawyer and the police that I should move out so she cannot just make stuff up that I will be arrested for (since they apparently see this all the time), and I can just wait out the official eviction process and hopefully homeowners will cover anything she breaks during the 90 days she got as an implied tenant. And she left on day 83, while I had to live on my sister's sofa. And how did the police come to tell me the options? Because she called the police to tell them I was being violent. I wasn't even there, and was down the street getting a blizzard at DQ. Came home and there they were, waiting to "investigate" my domestic abuse? So I had to leave my home to a psycho, had to be kept away based on her false accusation, and needed almost 3 months to get my life back...because a woman had a bad hair day.
If for any reason my wife was gone from my life, I am for sure going MGTOW. Not because I don't like women/sex/dating/romance, but because I am crap_your_pants scared that the wrong comment, facial expression, or whatever will wreck my life. The government and our society both going so far the other way with the pendulum has made it so not worth it to even try being friendly or sociable with women. It's one big minefield for men, and I can totally understand why MGTOW fellas say bag it to the whole thing. Is it wrong to assume every woman is a rent seeking, axe grinding grievance vampire? Sure, and not just a bit paranoid, I'll stipulate. But right now, in courtrooms all across America are dudes sitting as the defendant in some nonsense they didn't do who are wishing they had been as paranoid, if only...
I've gone on the record , that my current relationship is my last. Not because of fear about being misinterpreted, or some such thing. I interact well with both men and women, and am not so worried about wrong expressions or anything. It because I Love this lady too much. Losing her would end me, as far as relationships go., because I couldn't let go. She is my last. I could not give my heart away like this again.
The connection is to deep, and far to much has happened, that we have been through together. We are so intertwined, losing her would be like , physically, ripping half of me away, and its late enough in life, for both of us, trying to find something like this again just isn't worth it. Oh, I wouldn't be a hermit or anything. I would still have friends, both male and female, I just wouldn't be Olen for any kind of serious, committed relationship. Once you've had the best, nothing less will do, I suppose , is a good analogy.
I can't see myself , ever, reacting adversely ,to the company of women. Women are awesome! I've never been in a situation where I felt any less comfortable with men as with women. Well, maybe a couple times, but those weren't ...social or friendly..times. This MGTOW thing, as explained by the OP, seems to be disdainful of women, viewing them as a drain on a man. Parasitical, rather than symbiotic, the latter of which being the way I see women. Whether to.anticly involved, or not, we need each other, IMHO. For me, women are a balancing force. There are many things j feel more comfortable with women on, than I do men. I prefer women doctors, for example. I have found myself more able to be open, and relate issues more candidly, with women doctors. I don't know why, but it works. And I don't argue with it.
I can't see a time where I would want to have nothing to do with women. When I would not be desirous of another highly into.ate relationship, yes, but never completely removed.
Right now there is a section of the male population who feel seriously aggrieved and under represented, it's been on the cards for quite a while. Men universally will not get custody of their children unless the mother is a proven risk, because it's claimed women are better at parenting, do you see anything wrong with this claim, all women are better than all men by virtue of being women? Again with custody women are far more likely to deny visitation for any real or actual insult or action, holding the child to ransom without redress, if men try the same it can result in new custody hearings. Divorce can be terrible for men, it's been a standard tactic for lawyers of divorcing wives to file DVRO's against the husband (whether guilty or not) and make false claims, as it can improve their chances of winning better property division and benefits at the divorce (regardless of veracity of the claims). There's a whole bunch of legal actions that can only be taken by men against women if there is complete and substantiated evidence, that are taken by women solely on their claim. When there is an imbalance in equality, then either the imbalance is redressed (or you can tilt the balance further towards greater imbalance, resulting in oppression), or the area of that inequality will be avoided, you're just beginning to see those areas of inequality being avoided and reasons given.
One point I will make is that people shouldn't mistake this as a movement back to the "good ol' days" I'm mid 40's and I'm not old enough to remember the "good ol' days", as most of these men are younger than I, they have less chance of remembering them, maybe if they did they would feel less aggrieved.
If the sole purpose of MGTOW was to push for equal treatment of men and women under the law, specifically in family law and domestic situations, I and probably most women would have no problem with it. However, as some other posters have already shown, the MGTOW movement is about debasing women, declaring them all gold-digging, money grubbing, heartless (incapable of love? wow.) sub-humans who only care about using men. Read some of their diatribes and tell me that all they care about is equal treatment in family law court.
The OP said nothing that I can recall about wanting to avoid divorce, child support, etc. - he just doesn't see the point in pursuing sex and relationships. That's fine and dandy. You don't need a "movement" to do so.
And for all the MGTOW defenders and people who think other misogynistic men's movements aren't so bad, I give you this:
"I thought about this problem and am sure I have the solution: make rape legal if done on private property. I propose that we make the violent taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds."
Thanks for warning us but hate to tell you decades ago women came up with the idea and its worked out for us. Women love their lives free of responsibilty of men and once divorced we stay that way.
This has to be one of the dumber things I've ever heard of.
I'm a man and I don't need any of this gimmicky branded nonsense. My life is just fine without it.
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