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I had to re read the post a few times to get it
Here is what we guys fail to see -the current marriage and divorce laws are perceived as a right by women -the signs have been clearly posted since 1975
You give up a lot of your constitutional freedoms when u marry
Specifically -due process of law before loss of property or assignment of debt
You did not heed the posted signs bek u were in love
She accepts no blame
Stop complaining about being mugged in nyc Central Park at 3 am
That is what MGTOW is. It is men's liberation finally here and finally spreading. Deal with it
That isn't what MGTOW is about. The truth is, MGTOW is merely a reaction from irritated and underappreciated men, who believe society is against them. And that there are absolutely no benefits for getting married, or in some cases even having relationships with women. That the entire system is setup to punish men and turn them effectively into slaves, and that only a fool or a masochist would want that.
The true psychological root of MGTOW, is "male-empowerment". Men feel like they have lost control of their lives, and the only way to get the power back is to stop participating, and just do whatever they want. Reminds me of the movie "Fight Club", in the "chemical burn scene", Brad Pitt's character says "Its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything".
MGTOW is most certainly the result of feminism, and how the effects of feminism have largely disenfranchised many men. But I'll be honest, a significant cause of MGTOW is also capitalism(or at least the modern amalgamation of consumption-based corporatism).
With that said, I think your hatred of the "older generations" is somewhat misplaced. The reason they made the choices they made, wasn't because they were simply fools. Rather, they made those decisions because the incentives were different back then. My grandfather was born in 1930. That was back when women were still women, and men were still allowed to be men(he was in his 20's during the 50's). The baby boomers are hit-and-miss. Some are decent, but most are garbage. And the generation which came afterwards, is complete trash.
Marriage hasn't always been what it is today. You should read about what life was like hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. You'll realize that the world we live in today, is quite the aberration. And that the conditions which have led to "MGTOW" are new and artificial.
Even the MGTOW crowd will acknowledge that while "Western women" are garbage; That more "traditional" women from Asia, Latin-America, and Eastern Europe are possibly still worthwhile.
But why? The obvious answer is "because they are traditional". But we seldom really ask the question, "Why are they traditional?", or if we do we just make assumptions about laws or culture, without really trying to understand the real underlying causes.
The truth is, traditional women(IE good women) are from patriarchal/religious societies. In fact, religion and patriarchy are basically the same thing(god is the omnipotent father-figure/patriarch). It isn't that there can't be good women in Western societies. Its that the only good women are devoutly religious, and the MGTOW are all atheists.
Obtain comfy amount of money (less stress)
Travel and see the world (more cultured)
Pursue interest and activities you enjoy (hobbies)
For companionship you can meet guy friends (fishing, hiking, sports, bars, etc) and people on the internet (easy to find intellectually stimulating conversation).
For sex you have dating websites, porn and working women.
My credit rating is 735 and I have a few thousand dollars in debt (less than the average used-car cost) I make $40,000 a year, have a 401k and next month I am setting up a mutual fund. I've never been to jail, pay my bills on time, and have volunteered at the homeless shelter downtown but now volunteer at a local animal shelter. How oh how am I "not responsible"? I am not just sitting around playing video games all day. I work, save my money take care of myself.
The idea that every man who doesn't want to chase girls is "not grown up" is absurd. "Responsible" the way SOME women say it implies a man who will spend his money and effort on a woman instead of on himself and his own ambitions.
I don't agree with some of the other stuff in your ideology but this quote is spot on. If you don't feel the need to pass on your genes or wealth when you die, stay single and childless. Your nieces and nephews will buy the mcmansion with their wealthy uncles estate.
People respond to incentives(rewards and consequences). The reason the MGTOW thing started(which was going on long before it had a name) is because society has taken away most of the rewards for relationships/family/marriage, and began handing out bigger and bigger penalties.
And what makes our system even worse, is that the best men are the ones most punished. While the worst men are the most rewarded by it.
As I've said elsewhere on these boards, the cause of this is from the shift from patriarchy to matriarchy.
As many know, men want "good girls", while women want "bad boys". When men rule, society becomes "more good"(IE more respectful, more responsible, monogamy, hard-work, etc), because that is the male ideal. When women rule, society becomes completely dysfunctional and degenerate.
Lets understand that intelligent men want monogamy. Intelligent men tend to be very risk averse. Intelligent men do not like to gamble. Intelligence gives one the ability to plan for the future, and especially to understand how decisions affect the future. An intelligent man wants guarantees and protections for himself and his future. Where no guarantees and protections can be had, a good and intelligent man pulls back.
There are only three classes of men who should want to deal with women in the current political/legal climate. Idiots, selfish *******s, and those who are highly religious(and have a girlfriend/wife who is highly religious).
I JUST finished watching this video and I think you'd find it very interesting and useful. The main argument is that there are 2 reproductive strategies (r and K), and that the two are battling it out in society. When the r types have more influence, the environment becomes more conducive to r type behaviors. Same with K types. It's a long video, but worth watching even if you don't finish it.
People respond to incentives(rewards and consequences). The reason the MGTOW thing started(which was going on long before it had a name) is because society has taken away most of the rewards for relationships/family/marriage, and began handing out bigger and bigger penalties.
And what makes our system even worse, is that the best men are the ones most punished. While the worst men are the most rewarded by it.
As I've said elsewhere on these boards, the cause of this is from the shift from patriarchy to matriarchy.
As many know, men want "good girls", while women want "bad boys". When men rule, society becomes "more good"(IE more respectful, more responsible, monogamy, hard-work, etc), because that is the male ideal. When women rule, society becomes completely dysfunctional and degenerate.
Lets understand that intelligent men want monogamy. Intelligent men tend to be very risk averse. Intelligent men do not like to gamble. Intelligence gives one the ability to plan for the future, and especially to understand how decisions affect the future. An intelligent man wants guarantees and protections for himself and his future. Where no guarantees and protections can be had, a good and intelligent man pulls back.
There are only three classes of men who should want to deal with women in the current political/legal climate. Idiots, selfish *******s, and those who are highly religious(and have a girlfriend/wife who is highly religious).
The first two paragraphs I agree with. The last one has some holes in it. I do agree that in divorce/custody cases it KS the best Dads that get treated the worst. One weem ate on getting the ex her check, they'll have you swinging. Even if its the only time its happened in years of being bled dry. A real deadbeat is too hard to find, and harder to get anything out of. They only punish the responsible, because they can be tapped for money. All they can do to a real deadbeat, is throw him in jail. That costs money. No incentive. Child support and alimony support enforcement agencies are worse than the Gestapo ever was.
Now, the last part, there's another kind of man, and woman as well. We are older. The trials of failed marriages behind us, and the kids are off on their own. We are single, Independent, yet, we still came together , and fell head over heels. There's no pressure or expectations, on either of us, or by either of us, we just love each other and sharing the life we have left. Its all about us, what WE want and need. And we have needed each other, badly, more than once. Might have been OK, otherwise, but we both shudder to think about it.
So, I guess there's a 4th type of man, and a woman.an to fit.
I literally gagged. The smell of someone else's sweat? The presence of another human in a bed, thinking and doing God knows what?
Not.For.Me.! I tried sleeping in the same bed as a woman once and gave up and moved to the couch.
Saying "A computer screen can't replace real sex" is like saying "antibiotics can't replace leech-bleeding."
Your steering clear of women is a good thing, it's best to not pass on your genes to another generation. As has been mentioned before on this thread I suspect there is a plethora of issues, possibly mental or emotional, that lie beneath this mentality.
What an obnoxious post. What is a political forum except for a place to influence(IE debate) the opinions of others in the hopes of converting them to your way of thinking? Why are you even here?
People are the product of systems(IE their environment). The MGTOW must then necessarily be the outcome of our system. If you don't understand what about our system is causing a lot of men to "opt-out", then you need to go educate yourself about what is actually going on. Instead of being hateful and derisive towards people you don't even understand.
The annoying thing is that in most thread's people are seeking ways to IMPROVE a situation. Not so with MGTOW. They just want to announce all the problems they perceive (some of which are legit), but they're not interested in engaging in solutions just proclaiming they no longer plan on participating. So what's to discuss or debate? I'd be just as annoyed with a thread where some told us all about their religion and how they lived based on it and was uninterested in anything but recruiting for said religion. That's obnoxious to me.
I honestly wish all the men who decide to go their own way well. If it makes them happy and fulfilled, I think that's great. I feel exactly the same way about whatever choices people make. As long as they are not hurting others by their behavior, have at it. I'm just not into the thought of telling others about it. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan of celebrity magazines, reality TV or biographies unless about historical figures. I dislike a "look at me" attitude and you see way too much of it these days.
Now, the last part, there's another kind of man, and woman as well. We are older. The trials of failed marriages behind us, and the kids are off on their own. We are single, Independent, yet, we still came together , and fell head over heels. There's no pressure or expectations, on either of us, or by either of us, we just love each other and sharing the life we have left. Its all about us, what WE want and need. And we have needed each other, badly, more than once. Might have been OK, otherwise, but we both shudder to think about it.
So, I guess there's a 4th type of man, and a woman.an to fit.
Secondly, lets understand that there are really only two types of people in this world, selfish people, and unselfish people. And the truth is, by our nature, we are both selfish and unselfish. The real goal of society is to tame our selfishness and nurture our selflessness.
The underlying problem of our current system, is that the system not only does not encourage selflessness, it actually encourages selfishness. Both our economic system and our political system is designed to turn people against each other.
In a system which turns people against each other, no one trusts anyone else. And this has bled over into relationships to the point that men and women have become each other's enemies in a struggle for dominance, instead of partners who work together for a common benefit.
Men don't trust women, and women don't trust men. Both parties are only in it for themselves, and the moment they no longer benefit, they move on. All aspects of our lives are predicated on utter selfishness. Even the concept of MGTOW is nothing but selfishness in every aspect of its existence. It is all about "Me, Me, Me". But as I said, it is just a reaction to the same punitive selfishness coming from the other side, and from society as a whole.
The annoying thing is that in most thread's people are seeking ways to IMPROVE a situation. Not so with MGTOW. They just want to announce all the problems they perceive (some of which are legit), but they're not interested in engaging in solutions just proclaiming they no longer plan on participating. So what's to discuss or debate? I'd be just as annoyed with a thread where some told us all about their religion and how they lived based on it and was uninterested in anything but recruiting for said religion. That's obnoxious to me.
I honestly wish all the men who decide to go their own way well. If it makes them happy and fulfilled, I think that's great. I feel exactly the same way about whatever choices people make. As long as they are not hurting others by their behavior, have at it. I'm just not into the thought of telling others about it. Maybe that's why I'm not a fan of celebrity magazines, reality TV or biographies unless about historical figures. I dislike a "look at me" attitude and you see way too much of it these days.
I've put a considerable amount of thought into this issue; But let me state clearly, there is no solution to be had. The underlying causes of the situation we are in now, are really three things, democracy, capitalism, and atheism.
The nature of democracy is to turn people against each other for votes. Politics are always and forever controlled by two things, fear and greed.
Everyone knows the gender wage-gap is a farce, but it is repeated incessantly because it is useful politically. Politics aren't about honesty, they are about getting votes(through fear and greed). If you think feminism is or has ever been about equal rights, or for that matter, if you think "race" was ever about equal rights, you are deluding yourself.
As Mencken said, "Equality before the law is probably forever unattainable. It is a noble ideal, but it can never be realized, for what men value in this world is not rights but privileges."
Or as Aristotle said, "The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal.
I do want to say first, I like capitalism in theory. And I would be a huge fan of what I would call a "natural capitalism"(IE something like anarcho-capitalism, real free-market). But in reality, capitalism is never what it purports to be. Capitalism since its creation has always been crony-capitalism/corporatism, going back to the days of mercantilism and the East India trading company(and before that).
The entire system of capitalism is predicated on selfishness. And as Frederic Bastiat said, "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
The problem with capitalism, is that by its very nature, it creates a legal and moral code which glorifies selfishness. It cannot be separated from it(and socialism is even worse, which is nothing but envy, greed, and jealousy). Democracy, through its its use of fear and greed, also creates a legal and moral code which glorifies selfishness. And the third leg of this machine, atheism, is not only the natural outcome of democracy and capitalism, but it makes their negative effects even worse.
Atheism is the embodiment of all selfishness. Its nihilism declares that nothing in the world matters except for you. It worries not about the future, or the past. It only concerns itself with right now. And for only what benefits me right now. It puts the individual at the center of the entire universe, at the center of all time. Nothing is above him, no one else really matters.
It is all crap, but you cannot get rid of it. My only consolation is that these systems are self-destructive. And that they will necessarily collapse over a long-enough period of time. I personally cannot wait until Western civilization collapses, I'm doing everything I can to make sure it happens. And the MGTOW movement will only hasten that collapse.
There is no path ahead except collapse. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't thought it through. The only problem is, I'm not convinced that I'll like what comes next either. You guys have really F'ed up the world.
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