Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm convinced that those saying "whatever, we don't care, why tell us?" don't fully understand that those who subscribe to the MGTOW philosophy are getting plenty of BS IRL from those who say the same thing. If he speaks his mind, he get's s**t. If he doesn't met married or stays single, he still get's s**t. The level of shaming tactics, ad hominems and other forms of immature attacks are a good example.
If you don't care, then why are you responding with such long statements? I smell cognitive dissonance...
I'm convinced that those saying "whatever, we don't care, why tell us?" don't fully understand that those who subscribe to the MGTOW philosophy are getting plenty of BS IRL from those who say the same thing. If he speaks his mind, he get's s**t. If he doesn't met married or stays single, he still get's s**t. The level of shaming tactics, ad hominems and other forms of immature attacks are a good example.
If you don't care, then why are you responding with such long statements? I smell cognitive dissonance...
Shogun.
meh... I still don't care.. It's not my fault that their lifestyle isn't accepted by their peers.
meh... I still don't care.. It's not my fault that their lifestyle isn't accepted by their peers.
Who's placing blame? By peers, you mean western society? But to be fair, such a lifestyle isn't accepted in the vast majority of cultures and societies. Men who go against the cultural norms, major religion, and most notably gynocentrism (especially when it comes to marriage, having offspring, etc.) are seen as pariahs that are traitors to their people and the natural response is to shame them into doing such thing.
I'm convinced that those saying "whatever, we don't care, why tell us?" don't fully understand that those who subscribe to the MGTOW philosophy are getting plenty of BS IRL from those who say the same thing. If he speaks his mind, he get's s**t. If he doesn't met married or stays single, he still get's s**t. The level of shaming tactics, ad hominems and other forms of immature attacks are a good example.
If you don't care, then why are you responding with such long statements? I smell cognitive dissonance...
Shogun.
AMEN!
The thread has devolved into "if only women were like they were in the old days" and "feminism is too blame!" or "you're sexist for saying you don't need a woman to be happy!" or "I don't care...which is why I am responding."
And the reason we talk about this is to let others know they are not alone. Like I said, sex was meh at best and intimate relationships are not worth the effort. I have female friends, a female boss, and have nothing against women. It's just that I am done pursuing them romantically.
Society is appalled by the idea of a man who is just not interested in women but isn't gay. No, I am not asexual, just kind of apathetic about it at this point, as many men are. They just have been told by society, their families, their friends, that if you don't chase girls, you are not a "real man."
Being responsible for one's self and giving back to one's community is what makes one a real man, not how many women one sleeps with or being attractive to a member of the opposite sex.
And if the gender was reversed in this thread, and a woman said "she doesn't need men, and sex with them is overrated anyway and sometimes men even smell" it would be a chorus of women saying "you go girl!" But a man says that? "You have mental issues!" You hate women! No one cares!" blah blah...
I was a late bloomer and didn't really start dating until I was well into my 20s and lost my virginity closer to 30 than 20. Maybe that's why I don't see what all the fuss is about. I mean really, sex is overrated, and so are relationships. And yet, society expects me and other men to do x,y and z to "impress women" and "get girls" and go through all these hopes, do all this effort, just to attract a female. And once we get said female we are suppose to "grow up" and basically prostitute ourselves to a 9-5, even if we hate said 9-5, give up our own ambitions in favor of having kids, supporting a wife (so much for "independent women") and family and have no dreams aside from maybe getting a McMansion.
Enter MGTOW, an idea that was around before it had a name. It is about men rejecting the ideas of society and not denying ourselves to satisfy some woman's expectations or what society expects of men. It is NOT about men who don't want to grow up. The opposite, actually: I have a nice job, pay my own bills and even volunteer at a local animal shelter. I just don't spend any more time pursuing women because relationships as a whole are really not worth it. I would rather spend my time becoming a better writer of horror and fantasy or backpacking than trying to meet women at bars or online.
And it is not about hating women. I have more female friends than I do male friends. I have nothing against women as a whole. We don't believe women should be back in the kitchen. Most of us understand that women should be free to pursue whatever ambition they desire. Likewise, we want our own dreams to be OURS and not what society tells us. MGTOW is not anti-woman, but it is pro-men being free and liberated. Women do not have to stay in the kitchen and with the kids any more (thank God) and men don't have to climb the corporate ladder and jump through hopes to attract women and be hubbies anymore (thank God)
Also, MGTOW is as much a middle-finger to the older generation of men as it is to certain (but not all) women. We are telling our fathers and grandfathers that we see the lies they didn't see and that we know why they have grown into old, bitter men: they fell for it. The idea that I as a male have to become a walking ATM machine for a baby-factory who doesn't really care for me and I have to sell my soul for a "dream" of an ugly house filled with brats is dead. That McMansion is a gilded cage...emphasis on the cage part
And finally it is not about feminism. It may have been inspired by some ideas of feminism (if women can be liberated, than so can we) but this is not men giving up because women "refuse to be ladies". Even if I was around "Stepford Wife" kind of women I would still not want to go back to dating...in fact, that would be even worse! At least modern women can actually work and provide something material to a relationship in theory. Back in the day they were just free-loaders. Honestly: is a relationship and sex so important that I would give up my freedom to a free-loader? Not for me, it isn't, and not for a growing number of men.
That is what MGTOW is. It is men's liberation finally here and finally spreading. Deal with it
I can't officially speak for feminist women but I doubt feminists would have a problem with this. I don't think feminists want men to contort their ideals and dreams to get a woman. I would think they would want us to recognize when we are truly not compatible with a woman before it gets ugly and walk away.
Personally, I cannot follow (nor have I ever wanted to) the status quo American dream. Material acquisition and a huge pile of bills are not for me. And I think there are a lot of women out there who feel the same.
I wouldn't presume that it's a choice between materialistic women or no woman. Just look at the tiny house movement. A lot of women are leading the way in advancing a no mortgage, low consumption lifestyle. When I see those women I couldn't be more optimistic. I have nothing but respect and admiration for them. And I make it a point not to dwell on the people who don't get it. It just gives you a negative outlook.
The thread has devolved into "if only women were like they were in the old days" and "feminism is too blame!" or "you're sexist for saying you don't need a woman to be happy!" or "I don't care...which is why I am responding."
And the reason we talk about this is to let others know they are not alone. Like I said, sex was meh at best and intimate relationships are not worth the effort. I have female friends, a female boss, and have nothing against women. It's just that I am done pursuing them romantically.
Society is appalled by the idea of a man who is just not interested in women but isn't gay. No, I am not asexual, just kind of apathetic about it at this point, as many men are. They just have been told by society, their families, their friends, that if you don't chase girls, you are not a "real man."
Being responsible for one's self and giving back to one's community is what makes one a real man, not how many women one sleeps with or being attractive to a member of the opposite sex.
And if the gender was reversed in this thread, and a woman said "she doesn't need men, and sex with them is overrated anyway and sometimes men even smell" it would be a chorus of women saying "you go girl!" But a man says that? "You have mental issues!" You hate women! No one cares!" blah blah...
Again, any woman who virulently aired the intimate details of her lack of libido on a public forum would get the same treatment that you have experienced.
I'm convinced that those saying "whatever, we don't care, why tell us?" don't fully understand that those who subscribe to the MGTOW philosophy are getting plenty of BS IRL from those who say the same thing. If he speaks his mind, he get's s**t. If he doesn't met married or stays single, he still get's s**t. The level of shaming tactics, ad hominems and other forms of immature attacks are a good example.
If you don't care, then why are you responding with such long statements? I smell cognitive dissonance...
Shogun.
The only reason anyone is answering is it was thrown out there on a public bulletin board for discussion.IRL I'd never ask or comment. There's no point. I don't care why my uncle never married or why two of my neighbors are men who never married. Why is that any of my business?
I will admit to kind of feeling sorry for older people who have no one but I know that is me projecting my wants on them. All that matters is that they are happy with their lives.
If you want to opt out then opt out. It's really no one's business except yours. If they say anything just tell them you're happy with your decision and the lifestyle suits you and walk away. Seriously, why would anyone care what someone else thinks of their choices if they are comfortable with them?
The thread has devolved into "if only women were like they were in the old days" and "feminism is too blame!" or "you're sexist for saying you don't need a woman to be happy!" or "I don't care...which is why I am responding."
And the reason we talk about this is to let others know they are not alone. Like I said, sex was meh at best and intimate relationships are not worth the effort. I have female friends, a female boss, and have nothing against women. It's just that I am done pursuing them romantically.
Society is appalled by the idea of a man who is just not interested in women but isn't gay. No, I am not asexual, just kind of apathetic about it at this point, as many men are. They just have been told by society, their families, their friends, that if you don't chase girls, you are not a "real man."
Being responsible for one's self and giving back to one's community is what makes one a real man, not how many women one sleeps with or being attractive to a member of the opposite sex.
And if the gender was reversed in this thread, and a woman said "she doesn't need men, and sex with them is overrated anyway and sometimes men even smell" it would be a chorus of women saying "you go girl!" But a man says that? "You have mental issues!" You hate women! No one cares!" blah blah...
This, especially the bolded statements and that last paragraph. I noticed that the older I get and the higher up I go in my career, the more my marital status comes up in conversations, even when I intentionally try to avoid it. In western society, women are not to be criticized negatively or constructively. This is primarily because women are considered a protected class because they are viewed as oppressed. I don't believe any ideology, religion or person is above criticism, but we are all so easily offended.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945
Again, any woman who virulently aired the intimate details of her lack of libido on a public forum would get the same treatment that you have experienced.
Not calling you a liar, but I don't really believe this. And if it did happen, it wouldn't nearly be to the same extent, and the "you go girl" types coming in droves would be undeniable given how gynocentric this forum can really be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
The only reason anyone is answering is it was thrown out there on a public bulletin board for discussion.IRL I'd never ask or comment. There's no point. I don't care why my uncle never married or why two of my neighbors are men who never married. Why is that any of my business?
Of course, but think about what I said for a minute. Notice how we get people constantly saying "I don't care" yet putting forth all this energy into a conversation they allegedly don't care about, hence the OP's inclusion of the following quote "I don't care...which is why I am responding". Not you personally.
Quote:
I will admit to kind of feeling sorry for older people who have no one but I know that is me projecting my wants on them. All that matters is that they are happy with their lives.
If you want to opt out then opt out. It's really no one's business except yours. If they say anything just tell them you're happy with your decision and the lifestyle suits you and walk away. Seriously, why would anyone care what someone else thinks of their choices if they are comfortable with them?
Well said (and not caring what society thinks is a major part of MGTOW I might add), but once again, think about what I just said. As much as one refuses to talk about it, the subject will always come up in one way or another. Once everyone finds out you are "one of them", then you are at risk for more than just losing a friend or two. Imagine yourself as a gay man back between 1970 and the 1990s. If you came out publicly as gay, not only would your family and friends likely forsake you (that is, if you come from a conservative background), but you could possibly lose your job/career or be subject to homophobic attacks with the intent of seriously injuring or killing you.
And no, I'm not saying that being openly MGTOW means you are going to have hitmen gunning or mobs chasing you with pitchforks, but the other things do indeed happen and you are walking on eggshells in this politically correct battleground known as western culture. I have one of those prestigious IT careers, and if I were to reveal that I'm MGTOW either directly or unknowingly, it can be interpreted as "misogyny" by the wrong person, and hence I lose my career almost immediately. I've seen it happen. It's not exactly common, but it isn't rare either. One more example. Let's take a look at celebrities and pop figures. I noticed that male celebs cannot dodge this at all. At some point, he's essentially forced to state whether he's one or the other. His silence is often counted as "the other", which can greatly effect his popularity and his future prospects in whatever industry or profession he has.
Now, back to the point about not caring. You're absolutely right. If they don't like it, they can P off. But the fact that such consequences exist mean that there is a reason to have some level of concern, if you know what I mean.
Shogun.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IRL I'd never ask or comment. There's no point. I don't care why my uncle never married or why two of my neighbors are men who never married. Why is that any of my business? 