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Old 01-27-2016, 04:13 PM
 
Location: CO
2,172 posts, read 1,454,726 times
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Just in time for Pakistan to show off their new jets.


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Old 01-28-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
Nope, you cannot steer off the path of international theory. Iran has a Realist perspective of global view while the United States is in the Liberalist camp. You cannot ponder and speak about Iran's goals and strategies with a liberalist lens but through a realist. The common citizen and their support for whomever has no validity in this argument, they are substantially a non factor. Iran views the United States as a threat towards its self interests, and vis-vera. But I did find what you bolded interesting, since you said it yourself.. Iran can perceive anything as a "threat" and take action. While Iran is not sending a military to attack the U.S, Iran has sent protégés and financial backing to commit acts of terror against Americans. For this alone, Iran is no friend of the U.S.



Yes the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a huge problem in the region that has brought actors to the table angry. The Muallahs are in charge because they can be, they want to be, and they were able to with sprouting hatred to the West.



It's a very complex issues with severe implications in the region and for the West.

Iran is no different from other countries, most countries are paranoid and often it is hard to tell who threw the first stone that began the spiral of mistrust. The US also spreads violence and fuels civil wars, not least via the CIA, for instance in Latin America. It is not an Iranian specialty. We in the West have the odd tendency to think of ourselves as the good ones, and everyone who is against our expansion and manipulation is deemed an enemy.
And Pakistan is just as much of a sponsor of terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakist...ored_terrorism

Citizens are important, even in Iran. People overwhelmingly voted in favor of their current system in 1979. People were sick of the luxurious, Western life style of the Shah's clan, among other things.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,094,200 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Iran is no different from other countries, most countries are paranoid and often it is hard to tell who threw the first stone that began the spiral of mistrust. The US also spreads violence and fuels civil wars, not least via the CIA, for instance in Latin America. It is not an Iranian specialty. We in the West have the odd tendency to think of ourselves as the good ones, and everyone who is against our expansion and manipulation is deemed an enemy.
And Pakistan is just as much of a sponsor of terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakist...ored_terrorism

Citizens are important, even in Iran. People overwhelmingly voted in favor of their current system in 1979. People were sick of the luxurious, Western life style of the Shah's clan, among other things.
Pakistan can also pound sound. But do you still reject the notion that Iran is a sponsor of terror against Western civilians and regional instability? Iranian citizens voted and now they deal with a tyrannical government who controls their everyday life.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:13 PM
 
13,305 posts, read 7,875,111 times
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Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
It would be SO much better if Pakistan wiped out both Iran and Saudi.

Probably too much to hope for.
And then maybe India finished the job?
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Old 01-29-2016, 05:25 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Originally Posted by BMoreJuice View Post
Pakistan can also pound sound. But do you still reject the notion that Iran is a sponsor of terror against Western civilians and regional instability? Iranian citizens voted and now they deal with a tyrannical government who controls their everyday life.
As I said, they do what other countries including the US, Israel, Saudi-Arabia, etc. do as well. The odd thing is that when countries that are not of interest to the West do it, we call it terrorism, but when we do it, we don't, based on the illusion that we are the good guys and thus whatever we do is right and justified. Just think of the civil war in Nicaragua and other Latin American countries.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
As I said, they do what other countries including the US, Israel, Saudi-Arabia, etc. do as well. The odd thing is that when countries that are not of interest to the West do it, we call it terrorism, but when we do it, we don't, based on the illusion that we are the good guys and thus whatever we do is right and justified. Just think of the civil war in Nicaragua and other Latin American countries.
You have exposed political hypocrisy, absolutely. The argument of "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is a philosophical debate and with no viable answer. Our international political system is full of contradictions, self interests and moral bankruptcy. Because of this, you must think objectively and narrow you focus towards individual and country. You like I are an individual who is a citizen of a particular nation, which in this case is the United States. We are not immortal, our life can be taken away from us in many ways at a moments notice. To ensure the quality and longevity of life of ours and loved ones, we must support our self interests by supporting those who stand to protect us from harm. Iran is a country who theologically, religiously and symbolically does not support your lifestyle of western culture. This lack of support of western ideology and freedom has been a direct result of loss of life to please one's religious philosophy. If an American does not support a particular ideological and religious conviction, then death is a suitable punishment. In this case, Iran supports directly and indirectly the destruction of our society, culture and lives. There is no memorial in Iran but celebration and trumpets as a victory towards the final and last religion.

So we can blame western influence and apologize for actions by redirecting other actions done by other countries, but this does not absolve the terroristic attributes led by the Iranian government ( And Sunni sphere as well). Iran is not supporting elements to kill westerns over some political bs 30 years ago, okay.. It's because our society is shaming the god of Allah and our lifestyle may influence and prevent Muslims from reaching paradise. So we can pretend that the cause and effect comes from U.S Policy, but an isolation U.S Policy in the Middle East would still lead to terrorist attacks against Americans, whether from ISIS, Iran's Hezzbollah or fanatics who support Iranian doctrine. So the question remains, If Iran gave money and weapons to a organization that hypothetically killed your loved one's for the glory of Allah; Then went home to their families and lived a normal life, would you accept their ideological position because "other nations do it too"?

Nope, I doubt it. So please, let's not try to play GOD and not make excuses for a country who would celebrate your death.
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Old 01-30-2016, 09:52 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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That's why I say citizens are important. I know some Iranians, they are rather secular, not Muslim radicals at all. Iran is so much more than just the few mullahs in charge, which however is what the West likes to reduce Iran to so we can cling to our beloved image of that oh so evil country. Not unlike with Russia or China.
Young Iranians (and there are a lot of them, like in many such countries society is not rapidly aging like in Europe or Japan) have been challenging the leadership for many years, there are smaller battle fields in everyday life, for instance women deliberately letting some strands of hair hang outside their headscarves.
I think most Iranians just want their own third way, neither the Western way, nor the mullahs' way.
I don't get the impression that Iranians or any other different cultures care about our life style as long as we don't force it on them. The normal person in Tehran doesn't care whether people in LA or London or Rio do this or that. I have never heard of Muslim countries fighting Brazil, not even criticizing it, despite its utterly anti-Muslim life style. And why not? Because Brazil doesn't interfere in other parts of the world.

Last edited by Neuling; 01-30-2016 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 01-31-2016, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,094,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That's why I say citizens are important. I know some Iranians, they are rather secular, not Muslim radicals at all. Iran is so much more than just the few mullahs in charge, which however is what the West likes to reduce Iran to so we can cling to our beloved image of that oh so evil country. Not unlike with Russia or China.
Young Iranians (and there are a lot of them, like in many such countries society is not rapidly aging like in Europe or Japan) have been challenging the leadership for many years, there are smaller battle fields in everyday life, for instance women deliberately letting some strands of hair hang outside their headscarves.
I think most Iranians just want their own third way, neither the Western way, nor the mullahs' way.
I don't get the impression that Iranians or any other different cultures care about our life style as long as we don't force it on them. The normal person in Tehran doesn't care whether people in LA or London or Rio do this or that. I have never heard of Muslim countries fighting Brazil, not even criticizing it, despite its utterly anti-Muslim life style. And why not? Because Brazil doesn't interfere in other parts of the world.
Yes, Iranian citizens do have it in a rough spot. Although, there are plenty of Iranian citizens shouting death to America and Israel as well. There is no well defined border who is and who isn't. But in the context of politics, actions are judged off the government. Iran has committed terrorist attacks In South America before, like the AMIA building in Aregtine in 1994.
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Old 01-31-2016, 11:49 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,756,050 times
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That attack was not because of the Western life style, though, but aimed at the Jewish community in Buenos Aires. And when you read up on the messy investigation, it is not even clear the Iranian government was involved. It might as well have been the Iranian anti-government organization MEK trying to frame the Iranian government.
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
2,423 posts, read 2,094,200 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
That attack was not because of the Western life style, though, but aimed at the Jewish community in Buenos Aires. And when you read up on the messy investigation, it is not even clear the Iranian government was involved. It might as well have been the Iranian anti-government organization MEK trying to frame the Iranian government.
Yes, Iran also attacks the Jewish community as well. Iran was behind the attacks via hezzbollah, there you go again.
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