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The answer is both a yes and a no. Are hard-right "christians" upset and screaming in the wind? Sure, just like the racists did when the civil rights movement was taking place. Are they trying to pass new laws to subvert the rights of LGBTQ people? Yeah, that's happening as well.
However, the country has moved beyond the ignorant rubes, so in that respect, no I don't think it has taken a step back as far as acceptance. It is just the death throws of complaints from the ignorant.
Pretty much this. The hard-core bigots thought they were backed by people who liked them and their actions - turned out most of their backers just liked being on the winning side. Like those who flock around the schoolyard bully. But once the bully is humiliated and can't strike back, his hangers-on will leave.
One of the hallmarks of a fundie is somebody who cannot separate their own personal beliefs from what they believe should be the official policy of the government. You believe gay marriage is wrong? Don't get one and don't allow it in your church. You don't have the right to force the entire country to live by your beliefs.
And in terms of the Bible, a person can be a Christian yet not interpret the entire Bible as word-for-word literal fact.
Our government is supposed to be of the people. If we the people want to define marriage as woman/man then that is what it should be. That is the way it has always been. My beliefs? Yes, they are my beliefs, but they are also the beliefs of 75% of Americans. Again, it's our country and We do have the right to impose OUR laws!
Yes, there are many parts of the bible that are difficult to interpret. But, Genesis is pretty straight forward. Seriously, a 5 year old can comprehend the difference between a man and a woman.
The founding fathers gave us a great start with a solid, common sense structure. If we would follow the (clearly defined) guidelines then we would be fine. So, if the government was truly "of the people" then we would see common sense laws that reflect the will of the people. Unfortunately, too many Americans are either ignorant or ambivalent to see whats occurring.
There is absolutely, inarguably, no reason whatsoever--not one single reason--to oppose same sex marriage or be offended or disgusted by homosexuality that is not based on hatred, fear, ignorance, bigotry, or some combination of those things.
Not a single one.
To wish to preclude two consenting adults from marrying based solely on their gender is the very definition of discrimination and bigotry.
Soley based on their "gender"?
umm, no, it is based on sexual orientation.
There is a difference between 2 people living together and marriage. Marriage is something that is reserved for 1 man and 1 woman (according to the bible). So, there is reason #1 for Christians.
Another reason is that most Americans do not approve of homosexuality. So, why should we approve of a law that encourages, condones, and endorses it? US citizens should be able to weigh in on laws.
So, do these reasons result from hatred, fear, ignorance, bigotry?
Really? First Amendment, First Commandment - which one is more foundational for our laws?
This. I wish the fundies could show which one of our founding documents establishes this as a Christian nation, other than the extremely vague reference to a "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence. It doesn't exist. It's also not like it would have been politically incorrect in the 1780s to establish this as a Christian nation so the founders could have stated that's what they wanted if that is what was intended.
Why are you so callous towards your fellow human beings?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians
Our government is supposed to be of the people. If we the people want to define marriage as woman/man then that is what it should be. That is the way it has always been. My beliefs? Yes, they are my beliefs, but they are also the beliefs of 75% of Americans. Again, it's our country and We do have the right to impose OUR laws!
Yes, there are many parts of the bible that are difficult to interpret. But, Genesis is pretty straight forward. Seriously, a 5 year old can comprehend the difference between a man and a woman.
The founding fathers gave us a great start with a solid, common sense structure. If we would follow the (clearly defined) guidelines then we would be fine. So, if the government was truly "of the people" then we would see common sense laws that reflect the will of the people. Unfortunately, too many Americans are either ignorant or ambivalent to see whats occurring.
Fear of a 'Tyranny of the masses' situation was exactly one of the reasons why the supreme court was invented in the first place, so that an ignorant majority cannot trample on the rights of the few in their own petty self interest, especially in circumstance where it has no bearing on their life at all. The founding fathers were not all Christian, notably Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson among others, and regardless of belief, most agreed that matters of the state that affected the populace should be separated from the religious beliefs of the church, hence the reason they specifically added 'Separation of Church and State'. Christians today (and before) would like to try and re-write the actual history of the founding fathers to one that supports their own world view.
Marriage has always generally been between a man and a woman, but up until the mid 1400s, that woman was normally pre-pubescent at the time of their vows. The wife's father also more than likely shopped around for the best deal that would help the family at the time, hopefully a few oxen and mules if one's bloodline was of enough nobility or if the daughter proved fair enough to the suitor's liking, and then exchanged their child once an agreement could be finalized. Until marriage became a matter of requiring two consenting adults, that is the way it had always been. Slavery was the way it had always been until it was eradicated, women not being able to own property or vote was the way it had always been until the laws changed. There's many other examples of the point that I'm obviously making that I'll spare everyone from reading. The main take away is that society always progresses whether everyone is ready for it to or not, and those that aren't ready for that change, such as yourself, will idolize and become infatuated over a previous time in history that better fits your world view than the way things are viewed now does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guamanians
Soley based on their "gender"?
umm, no, it is based on sexual orientation.
There is a difference between 2 people living together and marriage. Marriage is something that is reserved for 1 man and 1 woman (according to the bible). So, there is reason #1 for Christians.
Another reason is that most Americans do not approve of homosexuality. So, why should we approve of a law that encourages, condones, and endorses it? US citizens should be able to weigh in on laws.
So, do these reasons result from hatred, fear, ignorance, bigotry?
Marriage as a construct existed long before Christianity did, so I'm not sure why we are tied to the Christian version of such things. But suppose we do go with that premise, do you also agree with Matthew 19:12 that states you should castrate yourself for the kingdom if you can manage to?
Quote:
12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Do you feel the same way about interracial marriage as Ezra did (10:9)?
Quote:
"9 Within the three days, all the men of Judah and Benjamino had gathered in Jerusalem. And on the twentieth day of the ninth month, all the people were sitting in the square before the house of God, greatly distressed by the occasion and because of the rain. 10 Then Ezrap the priest stood up and said to them, “You have been unfaithful; you have married foreign women, adding to Israel’s guilt.q 11 Now honora the Lord, the God of your ancestors, and do his will. Separate yourselves from the peoples around you and from your foreign wives.”
Certainly, if you were truly a believer in your faith, then you should try and follow these tenants expressed in the Bible right?
Finally, I'd like to add that your 75% figure about the US population that are Christians is somewhat exaggerated, it's actually closer to 53%, with athiests at 21% now making the second largest majority in the country, just to set the record straight.
Our government is supposed to be of the people. If we the people want to define marriage as woman/man then that is what it should be. That is the way it has always been. My beliefs? Yes, they are my beliefs, but they are also the beliefs of 75% of Americans. Again, it's our country and We do have the right to impose OUR laws!
Yes, there are many parts of the bible that are difficult to interpret. But, Genesis is pretty straight forward. Seriously, a 5 year old can comprehend the difference between a man and a woman.
The founding fathers gave us a great start with a solid, common sense structure. If we would follow the (clearly defined) guidelines then we would be fine. So, if the government was truly "of the people" then we would see common sense laws that reflect the will of the people. Unfortunately, too many Americans are either ignorant or ambivalent to see whats occurring.
We are not a theocracy and your religion has no place in government or in laws that govern all of us. The people do have the right to vote on laws, but not on rights, no matter what the majority is. Your bible is your bible, that is all, it is not law, it is not everyones bible or belief. Sorry that you do not understand how freedom and equality work or the seperation of church from the government.
umm, no, it is based on sexual orientation.
There is a difference between 2 people living together and marriage. Marriage is something that is reserved for 1 man and 1 woman (according to the bible). So, there is reason #1 for Christians.
Another reason is that most Americans do not approve of homosexuality. So, why should we approve of a law that encourages, condones, and endorses it? US citizens should be able to weigh in on laws.
So, do these reasons result from hatred, fear, ignorance, bigotry?
Yes your fears are from hatred, fear, ignorance and bigotry, they are also from your bible.
I don't think LGBTs were worried about acceptance. They didn't need it. They just needed socially conservative dinosaurs to move aside.
[this ain't 1950]
Exactly, it has nothing to do with acceptance. I don't care if some trailer trash, 3rd grade drop out in the middle of the country thinks of me. LOL
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Why are you so callous towards your fellow human beings?
