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I'm obviously much younger than the both of your (age 29) and did not grow up with what either of you have witnessed, that said, I do think that depending on where you grew up as a child, the riots, the drugs, etc may not have been as bad. Different cities have differently safety/danger levels. Also even within the same city, the safety level of different communities may vary.
I agree with this. However, I'll note that statistics do back me up about the fact that especially in urban areas the 1970s in particular were much more dangerous than today. The 1990s was the era of the highest amount of violent crime ever tallied in our country - the era when I was a teenager, which is why I have a lot of experience with gangs and seeing a lot of violence. It is very noticeable about how calm things are today. The crack epidemic happened during the 80s/90s as well and prior to that in many black urban areas there was a heroin epidemic in the late 60s through the 1970s. My spouse is from Chicago and had 3 members of his family murdered there in the 1970s and another 3 die of heroin overdoses.
On the riots thing, there were way more riots in the 1960s that caused much more loss of life and property than any of the more recent riots. I lived in Detroit for a while and areas of Detroit decimated in the riot of 1967 were never rebuilt and never recovered from that violent incident which was caused by the same issue that causes riots today - police brutality. The "reasons" for the riots are still the same. Nearly every riot where black people have rioted past and present have something to do with police brutality or perceived ill treatment from law enforcement. Prior to that "race riots" were basically whites going and attacking black people due to them perceiving blacks doing something criminal. There was also the politically motivated riot at the Chicago DNC in 1968. In Detroit, over 40 people were killed in that riot in 1967. The 60s in particular, riots were not "rare" and the reasons for blacks rioting then and now are the same. Whites rioted as well back then based on political issues, same as the election demonstrations/riots today. But all in all, people are much less violent today. You just didn't see it on the TV as much as you do today in the 70s-90s because everyone wasn't watching 24 hour news channels where they were being told how horrible everything is.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 01-12-2017 at 08:18 AM..
The utterance of racial epithets in itself has been asserted as ipso facto evidence of hate crime in the past committed by whites and straights despite any other circumstances in previous cases...but you argue it away here for the sake of black kids.
You have rationalized for yourself that this Chicago incident was not a hate crime. A lawyer in court can argue differently.
Sauce good enough for the goose is sauce good enough for the gander.
I have not "rationalized" that it was not a hate crime...
I said it was a hate crime motivated by disability and not by race. It is still a hate crime and I never said it wasn't, only that it was not race based. All hate crimes are not race based.
Just saying a racial epithet though is not a hate crime. I've been called a n*gger quite a few times by whites and I was not the victim of a hate crime over it. Saying a racial epithet is not a hate crime. My own family member have called whites "crackers" and "honkies" to white people and those whites, just by being called a name were not victims of hate crimes either.
ETA: It is odd that you would insinuate that I am taking up for black kids over this just because I don't agree saying "I ____ white people" is a hate crime. I also do feel that these perpetuators should and will get punished to the greatest extent that they can and that hopefully other people, no matter their skin color will not repeat these heinous acts. If someone is a violent criminal like these kids, I want them punished and I don't care what color they are. I'm not one of those blacks who think no black people ever do anything worth punishing over. As stated I'm old school hood, you hurt people, you need to get punished and I have no sympathy for them and think it is ridiculous these media stories about how they were "good" kids/parents, etc. They are freaking lunatics who need to get locked up for a time IMO. I'll note I feel the same way about the white kids who got no punishment for anally raping the black teen with a wire hanger and who I also think they targeted him based on disability and not race even though they repeatedly called him a "n*gger" as well and harrassed him. IMO his harrassment was based upon them seeing him as weak based on his congnitive disability. I personally feel that we need to focus much more on the violence instigated against disabled individuals, the elderly, and LGBTQ citizens because they have much higher levels of victimization rates and only focusing on race all the times causes people to overlook the intra-racial abuses of victims who fit the "identity" of the above.
I agree with this. However, I'll note that statistics do back me up about the fact that especially in urban areas the 1970s in particular were much more dangerous than today. The 1990s was the era of the highest amount of violent crime ever tallied in our country - the era when I was a teenager, which is why I have a lot of experience with gangs and seeing a lot of violence. It is very noticeable about how calm things are today. The crack epidemic happened during the 80s/90s as well and prior to that in many black urban areas there was a heroin epidemic in the late 60s through the 1970s. Do you feel that the crack epidemic was a response to integration, you know once segregation laws ended. Is it your belief that other ways had to be found as a way of keeping blacks down? My spouse is from Chicago and had 3 members of his family murdered there in the 1970s and another 3 die of heroin overdoses.
On the riots thing, there were way more riots in the 1960s that caused much more loss of life and property than any of the more recent riots. I lived in Detroit for a while and areas of Detroit decimated in the riot of 1967 were never rebuilt and never recovered from that violent incident which was caused by the same issue that causes riots today - police brutality. The "reasons" for the riots are still the same. Nearly every riot where black people have rioted past and present have something to do with police brutality or perceived ill treatment from law enforcement. Prior to that "race riots" were basically whites going and attacking black people due to them perceiving blacks doing something criminal. There was also the politically motivated riot at the Chicago DNC in 1968. In Detroit, over 40 people were killed in that riot in 1967. The 60s in particular, riots were not "rare" and the reasons for blacks rioting then and now are the same. Whites rioted as well back then based on political issues, same as the election demonstrations/riots today. But all in all, people are much less violent today. You just didn't see it on the TV as much as you do today in the 70s-90s because everyone wasn't watching 24 hour news channels where they were being told how horrible everything is.
I would actually be interested in reading about some of these riots from that time frame because you hear little to nothing about them, even during Black History Month. WHY do you think that violence was not reported as much on the news as it is now?
Having been an intelligence analyst, we learned how to "look at the game from the opponent's side of the board." We learned how to see from another person's viewpoint so that we could predict his responses and actions.
I can do that pretty well. See things from an Iranian's point of view? I can do that. See thing's from a Columbian's point of view? I can do that. I can see things from the point of view of even a gangbanger. Those are actually all rational actors, once you see the game from their side of the board.
I can't see the world from the point of view of those people. There was no rationality. To stream it live on social media? I can't grasp it. What response did they expect? How did they think that action was "normal" enough that they would attract an approving following from a generalized public?
I meant to post this on another thread, but that aside, here goes. We can look at things from another person's perspective. However, I agree that we have to draw a line someone. Just looking at that, what excuse can anyone come up with? Someone would have to be sick-minded to do a thing like that.
I would actually be interested in reading about some of these riots from that time frame because you hear little to nothing about them, even during Black History Month. WHY do you think that violence was not reported as much on the news as it is now?
My father remembers those riots. He was in two of the cities where they took place.
I would actually be interested in reading about some of these riots from that time frame because you hear little to nothing about them, even during Black History Month. WHY do you think that violence was not reported as much on the news as it is now?
If you have Netflix you should check out a documentary called "The Black Power Mixtape." It covers the period between 1967 and 1976 and speaks about how over 30 riots occurred during that time period and all the assassinations that occurred as well (MLK, Medgar Evers, RFK).
Below are some of the riots on Wikipedia from the 1960s. And these riots were spoken about on the news. Just back then "the news" was only on in the evening so it was not always in people's faces back then like it is today. I remember the coverage of the 1992 LA Riot after the Rodney King verdict (another police brutality riot). It was not on all day. I also remember the coverage of riots in the 2000s most notably in Cincinnati and Toledo as I am from Ohio.
Note that ALL of the riots above involved the deaths of multiple individuals and police officers. Today we do not see death tolls like riots of the past. All of the above riots had to do with either the murder of Dr. King (primarily in 1968) or police brutality issues faced by inner city black Americans. This is the same issue that people are protesting and rioting about today, yet we don't have the death toll and property destruction today that was present in that era.
For further reading on the history of "urban riots" in particular, you should look the the "Red Summer" of 1919. That year was the one with the most documented riots that occured in the US. Nearly all of them were whites attacking black people and killing them and burning down their neighborhoods, homes, and businesses.
On your question about the crack epidemic, no I do not think it had to do with integration at all. As I stated earlier, there was a heroin epidemic in many urban areas in the 1960s and 1970s in black America prior to integration occurring. A majority of blacks still lived in segregated neighborhoods in the urban centers in the 1980s and 1990s as well.
People use drugs for a variety of reason and IMO many do so just to see what it is like and they just get hooked on it. Same as what is happening to white Americans today with opiates and what happened with them and crack. The media in the 80s/90s made black people the "face of the crack epidemic" when in reality, whites used crack just as much as black people did back then. People like to get intoxicated and they think it is temporary and that they won't get hooked. When they do, the addiction can destroy their lives. My dad used crack in the 80s primarily due to wanting to not think about his troubles/issues. Both his parents died by the time he was 21 and he dealt with their deaths by partying and drinking and hanging out and got hooked on drugs and it took him 12 years to get off of them. Some people are still what I call "leftover crackheads" from the 90s.
However, I do believe that government did dump drugs into specific inner city ghettos in order to cause a detriment to the Black Power Movement and especially the original Black Panther Party. The BPP were seen as a huge threat by our government.
If you ever have the time, you should read some COINTELPRO files, they are online now for various individuals. I recently finished the one on WEB DuBois, which was really interesting considering the "distinguishing characteristics" about him were that he was "an exceptional negro" and he also "had a goatee" lol.
Included in the above is the link to some of the COINTELPRO files of groups considered to be "black nationalist hate groups" which include the National of Islam and the original Black Panther Party and other groups not as well known as the above. If you look further in the site, you can find files on specific individuals like Angela Davis, Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Elijah Muhammed, Fard D. Muhammad (his was very interesting to me), and others that are more in depth. Practically everyone you know of in black history has an FBI file.
Note that ALL of the riots above involved the deaths of multiple individuals and police officers. Today we do not see death tolls like riots of the past. All of the above riots had to do with either the murder of Dr. King (primarily in 1968) or police brutality issues faced by inner city black Americans. This is the same issue that people are protesting and rioting about today,
Actually, not.
The constant pressures upon people today are nowhere near what they were in those days.
Included in the above is the link to some of the COINTELPRO files of groups considered to be "black nationalist hate groups" which include the National of Islam and the original Black Panther Party and other groups not as well known as the above. If you look further in the site, you can find files on specific individuals like Angela Davis, Bobby Seale, Huey Newton, Elijah Muhammed, Fard D. Muhammad (his was very interesting to me), and others that are more in depth. Practically everyone you know of in black history has an FBI file.
When I watched Zootopeia, I nearly stood up in the seat, "They went to COINTELPRO!"
One of the major targets of the FBI was the Black Panther school lunch program. Explicitly, the school lunch program. The purpose was to ensure the Black Panther Party did not succeed in establishing a socially significant image--it was Hoover's intention of creating his own image of the Black Panther Party.
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