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Old 03-30-2017, 08:21 PM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,700,406 times
Reputation: 5132

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
Why on earth would I be drawn to believe in a faith that harbors such evil? Please explain.
To paraphrase your question: Why on earth would people be drawn to Islam, a faith that also promises hell to unbelievers?

IF you believe in a spiritual life after the death of the body, do you not wonder where your spirit will go after this earthly life is over?

Psalm 139:8
If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!

From the Jewish Encyclopedia: The dead descend or are made to go down into it; the revived ascend or are brought and lifted up from it

(I Sam. ii. 6; Job vii. 9; Ps. xxx. 4; Isa. xiv. 11, 15).

Definition from the Jewish Encyclopedia "SHEOL"
Hebrew word synonym of "bor" (pit), "abaddon" and "shaḥat" (pit or destruction), and perhaps also of "tehom" (abyss).

It connotes the place where those that had died were believed to be congregated. Jacob, refusing to be comforted at the supposed death of Joseph, exclaims: "I shall go down to my son a mourner unto Sheol" (Gen. xxxvii. 36, Hebr.; comp. ib. xlii. 38; xliv. 29, 31). Sheol is underneath the earth (Isa. vii. 11, lvii. 9; Ezek. xxxi. 14; Ps. lxxxvi. 13; Ecclus. [Sirach] li. 6; comp. Enoch, xvii. 6, "toward the setting of the sun"); hence it is designated as (Deut. xxxii. 22; Ps. lxxxvi. 13) or (Ps. lxxxviii. 7; Lam. iii. 55; Ezek. xxvi. 20, xxxii. 24). It is very deep (Prov. ix. 18; Isa. lvii. 9); and it marks the point at the greatest possible distance from heaven (Job xi. 8; Amos ix. 2; Ps. cxxxix.


The concept of hell was well established in Christianity when Muhammad came along 600 years later. He adopted it into his new religion and fire and final judgment are a dominant theme of the Qur’an: e.g. “Surely, those who disbelieve in our revelations, we will condemn them to the hellfire”

Numerous verses in the Qur'an relegate unbelievers to this fiery hell, “wherein they abide forever.”

Jesus, the perfect sacrifice (God Himself, because He is merciful) died to pay for our sins so that we will not be condemned. We can't work our way to heaven. He is the way that God provided for *everyone*. "Whosoever believes..." Jesus said.

That's the key. Believe.

Last edited by swbtoo; 03-30-2017 at 08:32 PM..

 
Old 03-30-2017, 08:40 PM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,700,406 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
And Satan was not a personification of evil in Judaism or early Christianity, either. That concept developed later.
Too bad you can't ask Job about that.
 
Old 03-30-2017, 08:57 PM
 
17,468 posts, read 12,943,456 times
Reputation: 6764
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
If you read the earlier part of the thread, you would see that this student had a history of antagonizing the professor, to the point where she had to file a restraining order due to stalking. He wrote a particularly unhinged (and poorly written!) email to her in the midst of all of this.

This had nothing to do with religion or ideology (at least on the side of the professor) and everything to do with a disruptive student with an ax to grind.
Since you already said this student is an adult, this is how the adult teacher should have seen it, also. I read the email and saw nothing offensive or threatening toward the teacher. He may have been blunt in speaking, but no way near threatening!
 
Old 03-30-2017, 09:05 PM
 
17,468 posts, read 12,943,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Too bad you can't ask Job about that.

Started in Genesis 3. Hey, what do we know!


I wonder who that was that tempted Eve, was it another man.
 
Old 03-31-2017, 01:02 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,605 posts, read 84,838,467 times
Reputation: 115145
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Too bad you can't ask Job about that.
Ha, Job exactly demonstrates that Satan in Judaism is NOT the personification of evil!

Satan acts as sort of an agent for God, taking everything from Job to see if he will keep his faith in God.

A Jewish woman once gave me this analogy to describe the Jewish version of Satan: in Willie Wonka/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, a shady character named Slugworth tries to lure Charlie into giving away the secret candy he was told not to share with anyone. It is a test, because Slugworth really works for Willie Wonka and they are testing to see if Charlie is worthy to inherit and run the factory.

In Judaism, Satan is Slugworth.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-31-2017 at 01:35 AM..
 
Old 03-31-2017, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,605 posts, read 84,838,467 times
Reputation: 115145
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post

Started in Genesis 3. Hey, what do we know!


I wonder who that was that tempted Eve, was it another man.
Pay attention.

We are talking about Satan in JUDAISM. The snake in the GOE is not the devil/personification of evil in Judaism as it is in Christianity. It's just a talking snake.

The Muslim Shaytan is more like the Christian Satan/Devil/Lucifer, I believe, the opposite of God rather than his agent.

Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 03-31-2017 at 01:38 AM..
 
Old 03-31-2017, 04:21 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,315,035 times
Reputation: 16665
This is the problem with religion: too many people think they have it all figured out instead of being content with finding something that works for themselves. I reiterate: If people would just live and let live this world would be a much more loving and peaceful rock to live on.
 
Old 03-31-2017, 04:32 AM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,591,238 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
This is the problem with religion: too many people think they have it all figured out instead of being content with finding something that works for themselves. I reiterate: If people would just live and let live this world would be a much more loving and peaceful rock to live on.
I agree with you go a point, but I'm not sure this is a function only of religion. I think to a degree, it is simply the worst part of human nature, unchecked. It is my personal opinion that people who use extreme religious views to excuse hatred of others would, in the absence of their beliefs, find another excuse.
 
Old 03-31-2017, 05:38 AM
 
Location: S.E. US
13,163 posts, read 1,700,406 times
Reputation: 5132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Ha, Job exactly demonstrates that Satan in Judaism is NOT the personification of evil!

Satan acts as sort of an agent for God, taking everything from Job to see if he will keep his faith in God.

A Jewish woman once gave me this analogy to describe the Jewish version of Satan: in Willie Wonka/Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, a shady character named Slugworth tries to lure Charlie into giving away the secret candy he was told not to share with anyone. It is a test, because Slugworth really works for Willie Wonka and they are testing to see if Charlie is worthy to inherit and run the factory.

In Judaism, Satan is Slugworth.
Satan in Job is an agent of God indeed and Job's test shows us clearly how Satan works and how God works in response to unfailing faith.

Elsewhere and throughout the OT/Tanakh he is frequently shown as the agent of evil working in and "through earthly kings and rulers who take to themselves divine honors and who, whether they actually know this or not, rule in the spirit and under the aims of Satan." For his history, here's a decent link:

Story of Lucifer

Excerpt: Story of Lucifer – His History
"Lucifer is just another name for Satan, who as head of the evil world-system is the real, though invisible, power behind the successive rulers of Tyre, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and all of those evil rulers that we have seen come and go in the history of the world. This passage goes beyond human history and marks the beginning of sin in the universe and the very fall of Satan in the pristine, sinless spheres before the creation of man."

Satan is a real, spiritual being.
 
Old 03-31-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,605 posts, read 84,838,467 times
Reputation: 115145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catgirl64 View Post
I agree with you go a point, but I'm not sure this is a function only of religion. I think to a degree, it is simply the worst part of human nature, unchecked. It is my personal opinion that people who use extreme religious views to excuse hatred of others would, in the absence of their beliefs, find another excuse.
I agree with you, Catgirl64. Religion is only the mask they hide behind in order to express their hate.
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