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No we didn't. Japan and Germany were both countries with people that still had a lot to lose. It became clear that if they continued that they would lose what they had left.
They have nothing to lose in Afghanistan........as pointed out they are living in caves. We destroyed what little they did have. Iraq was a fairly modern secular country until we destroyed it. It's not the people of Iraq that are fighting either. As we saw when they were asked to they refused.
It's the people with nothing we are fighting. You can not win that battle because as I've pointed out for years, we kill 50 of them and they kill 2 of us and they win.
Don't fool yourself into thinking it's merely about which civilisation had the most to lose. If that were the case hitler and hirohito would have been dealt with from within.
Ideology.
The principles and logic that they follow.
Vietnam. Totally different from WW2 same things and tactics used by the NVA and VC are still being used by ISIS etc.
Are you that foolish to believe how many Japanese and Germans threw their hands up because Muh country and its infrastructure is destroyed? Their blood thirst had nothing to do with it?
Or was it because of the ideology they followed and the actions our men took to show we mean business comply or die?
People seem to have forgotten the lessons of Vietnam and the Russians/US in Afghanistan, we were superior in each and every way except for one, motivation. Fighting to expel an invader makes a far greater motivation. If superior air power was a solution we would have won Vietnam 10 times over but wars are not won from the air, they are won on the ground. Cruise missiles and the recent bomb while impressive accomplish very little. One thing for sure is that they help recruit more terrorists when they kill innocent civilians.
Seems like the Russians are now backing the Taliban, we have gone full circle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
No we didn't. Japan and Germany were both countries with people that still had a lot to lose. It became clear that if they continued that they would lose what they had left.
They have nothing to lose in Afghanistan........as pointed out they are living in caves. We destroyed what little they did have. Iraq was a fairly modern secular country until we destroyed it. It's not the people of Iraq that are fighting either. As we saw when they were asked to they refused.
It's the people with nothing we are fighting. You can not win that battle because as I've pointed out for years, we kill 50 of them and they kill 2 of us and they win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
yeah.. I agree with you there.
Fighting somebody have nothing to lose is always a challenge.
I agree with the above.
The war in Afghanistan is a lost cause. There is no way that we can conquer and control the country and train Afghans to run it. Russians have failed and so will we.
You can drop bombs after bombs from the air but that will never ensure victory. As to ground war, who wants to see having innocent soldiers killed and body bags being brought home every day.
And finally if we indiscriminately bomb with massive weapons like this bomb we have little right to tell others to not use chemical weapons. After all the intention is to kill and maim as many people as possible.
And it killed a whole 36 ISIS fighters. This will surely end ISIS. How much did this bomb cost the taxpayers??? What a waste.
Those bombs were built bought and paid for in 2003. Would you rather they be constantly upgraded to ever changing battlefield technology for how many thousands of dollars? Or scrapped and parted out for pennies on the dollar?
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp
No we didn't. Japan and Germany were both countries with people that still had a lot to lose. It became clear that if they continued that they would lose what they had left.
They have nothing to lose in Afghanistan........as pointed out they are living in caves. We destroyed what little they did have. Iraq was a fairly modern secular country until we destroyed it. It's not the people of Iraq that are fighting either. As we saw when they were asked to they refused.
It's the people with nothing we are fighting. You can not win that battle because as I've pointed out for years, we kill 50 of them and they kill 2 of us and they win.
Just to add to your post.
With Japan even though there were generals like Tojo and the like. The emperor was a god to the common people so when he actually addressed his people in his radio address stopping the war with America. The people obeyed unquestioningly. This is just something that isn't possible with our current fight with ISIS, al-qaeda, or whoever else.
With Germany: At least west Germany. Methinks If it wasn't for our fear of the soviets, West Germany wouldn't have gotten nearly the support they got from the west. Fear of the spread of communism helped build west Germany into an economic powerhouse...and of course that economic prosperity help the country distance themselves from the nazi idealogy. Btw the Great Depression was one the major events to help hitler become as powerful of a political player as he did. Desperate people do desperate things sometimes.
Of course there was a share history of European culture that probably did hurt re-assimilation.
Are you prepared for an uninvolved America? Are you convinced that a hands off approach by the US would not lead to more death and bloodshed around the world?
A question that's been asked over and over but can never be answered. I'd love to know what our world would be like if we hadn't been involved in one war after the other in the Middle East.
Think of how we'd react if another country was occupying our land with military bases and killing our citizens. We'd be pretty POd. And you can bet most all of us who have arms would take them up and fight the invaders. Then the occupying forces would be calling us terrorists and we'd love it.
We'll never know what it could be like if we attempted to sign a truce of if we just ended military intervention. We can't do either because this thing is far more complex than most of us can imagine. We want a world living in peace but it never happen as long as the masses aren't willing to die for it. And that means revolting against the psycho leaders and the military they control. That's a tall order.
Roughly 35 miles south of Jalalabad. There's lots more there to bomb if we wish.
Quote:
The first time bin Laden had seen the Tora Bora caves, he had been a young mujahedeen fighter and a recent university graduate with a degree in civil engineering. It had been some 20 years before, during Washington's first Afghan war, the decade-long, C.I.A.-financed jihad of the 1980's against the Soviet occupation. Rising to more than 13,000 feet, 35 miles southwest of the provincial capital of Jalalabad, Tora Bora was a fortress of snow-capped peaks, steep valleys and fortified caves. Its miles of tunnels, bunkers and base camps, dug deeply into the steep rock walls, had been part of a C.I.A.-financed complex built for the mujahedeen. Bin Laden had flown in dozens of bulldozers and other pieces of heavy equipment from his father's construction empire, the Saudi Binladin Group, one of the most prosperous construction companies in Saudi Arabia and throughout the Persian Gulf. According to one frequently told story, bin Laden would drive one of the bulldozers himself across the precipitous mountain peaks, constructing defensive tunnels and storage depots.
Indeed, by December 2001, when the final battle of Tora Bora took place, the cave complex had been so refined that it was said to have its own ventilation system and a power system created by a series of hydroelectric generators; bin Laden is believed to have designed the latter. Tora Bora's walls and the floors of its hundreds of rooms were finished and smooth and extended some 350 yards into the granite mountain that enveloped them.
Those bombs were built bought and paid for in 2003. Would you rather they be constantly upgraded to ever changing battlefield technology for how many thousands of dollars? Or scrapped and parted out for pennies on the dollar?
We're at the point where we use the sunk cost fallacy to make military decisions?
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