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Daycare ends when the kids go to Kindergarten. And even then, even when there is no more daycare, there is still no requirement for Mom to financially support her kids. Not even to the tune of $1/wk.
LOL - methinks you don't have children. When my kids went to school, because I work and their dad does, we had to pay about $50-$100 a week for "after school" care for th em for only 2 hours a day. Interestingly when my daughter was in preschool it was $185 a week and she was there for 8-9 hours a day lol. Yet for 2 hours it was $100 a week for her. Childcare does not end when kids start school. It is illegal in some areas for kids to be at home by themselves prior to age 12 and so you have to pay for after school care if you aren't on welfare. We've never been on welfare nor ever had any daycare assistance and for the majority of my life since my son was born until around 2015 when I moved back to my hometown and my family watches my 10 year old after school for free for me - we paid between $12,000 (for daycare) and $8000 (afterschool land summer care) per year on childcare.
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Originally Posted by dysgenic
If its so expensive to raise kids, then why aren't Mom's required to financially support them?
And by the way, claiming that your entire mortgage is a childcare expense is disingenuous at best, intentionally deceptive at worst.
Supporting children means you pay rent or a mortgage for them to have a place to live. Child support to the non-custodial parent is for the "general upkeep" of the child and not just daycare expenses. To take good care of a kid they need medical insurance, a home, food, water, etc.
And moms are required to financially support children. Not sure why you even think they are not. A majority of women today work and support their children either alone or with their spouse/co-parent. I am a married woman BTW. Nearly all of my income goes to either supporting our household and saving for school for my kids and retirement for myself. Same for my husband. If we didn't have kids, our household expenses would be at least 50% less than what they are today.
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Originally Posted by dysgenic
It really doesn't matter how much you or anyone else use stereotypes to bash Dad's and men in general, it doesn't change the fact that men are the only gender financially obligated to support their kids. Women are not held accountable even if they pay 0 towards their kids.
I don't bash dads. Most of the dad's I know are great dads. Even those who pay child support and are non-custodial parents. Nearly all of them in my life either friends or family, they are EXCELLENT fathers. I am black BTW and so most of the men I know who are great fathers (including my own and my 3 brothers) are black men.
However, those that b**ch and complain all the time about child support, IMO those are often the lazy men I spoke about. I also know too many IMO dead beat moms, one was/is the mother of 2 of my nephews who don't do anything for their kids.
On women not having to pay anything for kids - that is your fantasy world. One of my co-workers got a divorce 17 years ago and because her ex was a self employed contractor, he just didn't report any income and never paid child support. She ended up having to pay him alimony and she also had to give him half of her retirement account/pension all the while she couldn't afford to live anywhere because she was the full provider for her kids so her dad gave her a house he owned. She recently bought it from him now that her youngest is grown and is working in the trades and helping financially in the house. You have some sort of la-la land ideation of what it means to "support" a child and what role mothers and fathers play in the lives of their children.
I can guarantee you I pay more than 0% to support my daughter. I wonder if some posters here have ever seen a child support worksheet. It's clear that both parents contribute a share of childcare expenses based on a combination on income and time the child is with them.
My Ex and I are divorced, have joint custody (although he moved out of the area so now she's with me 80% of the time because her school is where I live).
When we divorced, the state used a formula that included how much money we both make and how many days our daughter would be with each of us. It didn't matter who was mom or dad, what mattered is who made what and where our daughter was going to be. That formula showed how much I was supposed to contribute to support and how much my ex was supposed to contribute. Who was paying for health insurance and how much that was is also part of the equation.
If we made the exact same amount and split time with our daughter 50/50 and somehow split health insurance 50/50, it would have been a wash. As it was, since she was with me more often and he earned more money than I did, he was expected to contribute a little more towards her care than me which is then paid to me in support.
If all I did was feed and clothe my daughter and make sure she had basic school supplies and had health insurance for her, that amount wouldn't even cover half of her expenses. I track everything in Quicken, so I know this for a fact. Of course, I am also not doing just raman noodles and doing the bare minimum. She is involved in school activities, private lessons for music, goes on school trips, and other things that are extras the state doesn't consider in child support calculations. She was recently selected to represent the United States in an honor band that will perform internationally for a month next summer, I could have said no, but I am planning/budgeting for it. I have to pay her travel and food expenses and it isn't cheap. A year's worth of child support would pay for half of that trip. I pay the other half (and she still has living expenses the other 11 months of the year).
Child support doesn't cover half of her expenses even without honor band trips. So I am covering the rest/the majority. In the years she was in child care (after and before school care and also summer care) his support didn't even pay half of THAT one monthly bill. Now that she's out of child care, at least things are a little closer to even, but his support still doesn't pay for half of the costs.
It's not my ex's fault of course that his portion doesn't pay for everything. It's just that the state grossly underestimates what it costs to raise a child. My guess is he doesn't even know he's not really paying for half. How would he know unless I showed him my Quicken account. He's great about sending a check each month so I never bothered to bring him back to court after he moved/when the reality was we didn't have 50/50 custody anymore. I am getting by just fine and didn't want the drama.
Long rant, I know. But to assume all divorced mom's who get some support for the kids are paying 0% and we are just milking our exes for money is ludicrous.
I just want to add, because alimony was brought up. My ex and I were married for 15 years. When we married he earned less than I do, but at the time of divorce he out earned me due to a series of moves we made to promote his career at the expense of mine. I declined alimony (again, didn't want the drama), but if I pursued it, it would have been a whopping $50 a month for five years or about .03% of his yearly income. Alimony isn't dead, but I don't think it's what a lot of people think it is.
Last edited by WalkingLiberty1919D; 08-08-2019 at 09:20 AM..
He went back to court, was not behind, and the judge refused to change it. I know a guy right now who has his kids, has had them for 5 years and is probably going to jail for non support. His trial is in Sept. And he can prove it all. He has been fighting it for the whole five years.
Oftentimes people don't tell the inner workings of their case.
My older brother was cheated on by his ex. She tried to take his kids. He literally went over there and took the kids home with him and raised them ever since. She tried to take him to court and he got a lawyer and got joint custody of his kids, they lived with him half the week. She moved to another state and tried to sue him for child support. He got another lawyer and fought the case and won and she was not awarded child support.
Often people don't tell everything that is going on. Unless you went to court with them you are not privy to the inner workings of the case and most of the sob stories I've heard over the years from both men and women over custody and child support were sob stories because the crying party was lazy or negligent or just didn't want to be bothered with the cases in questions.
I'll note my dad didn't stop paying child support until he was 50 years old. He had to pay back support to the government for my older sister even though he was living with her and her mother for 10 years of her life. They made him pay for her entire childhood (birth to 18) because my sister and her mom were on welfare/medicaid and other social service programs during that time. Oftentimes when there is not a way to wiggle out of these cases, it is because they involve the government and not the custodial parent as the plaintiff. Dad worked out a very small payment and just paid it off. Ending that payment coincided with him ending support as well for my youngest sister. He had a "main job" that was just dedicated to child support payments for years and did sports officiating to live off of part time and never complained about child support other than the government one but even for that one he admitted he should have put my older sister on his healthcare plan because that would have at least made what he had to pay less. After that case, he put all of us on his healthcare plan. He has 5 kids.
Yet to be seen. When I last met with them they had support orders and were to serve them (good luck with that). That is the last I have heard. It has been a real chit show so far dealing with them and I dont expect to ever see a dime. The money would be nice but I dont NEED it. My grandson is soooo much better off away from his mom. I am only filing for CS because that is what I had to do to get them to stop garnishing the fathers wages to pay to the mother who has not had the kids 5 years in Oct. He was looking at jail time because he was unemployed for a few months. When I tried to speak to CS about it I got the "we cant stop and order without an order". I understand the frustration.
yep, that's a real common problem. If she hasn't had the child for 5 years I'm guessing the garnishment is for arrears, right? I don't know what state you are in but if mom didn't receive the child support and it went to offset her welfare benefits there's a program in some states called "compromise of arrears" If you can show that you can't pay the arrears they will sometimes accept as little as 10% and discharge the remaining debt.
An order of guardianship for you, or custody for your son would immediately stop any support order she has. I know because we went through this. My son got custody of his son 3 years ago after finally tracking mom down, she had disappeared 18 months earlier and had spent that time living in her car with the boy who was 4 when my son got him back. My son filed for custody and when it was granted he went to DCSS and got the old support order stopped. She now has a support order against her but she doesn't work so he will never see a penny. But the kid is doing very well with dad and that's what matters
He went back to court, was not behind, and the judge refused to change it. I know a guy right now who has his kids, has had them for 5 years and is probably going to jail for non support. His trial is in Sept. And he can prove it all. He has been fighting it for the whole five years.
Did he file for a modification?
What did he go back to court for?
Yes, my sons was going to jail for non support even though his ex had not had the kids for 5 years (in Oct.). He never filed a modification of support.
yep, that's a real common problem. If she hasn't had the child for 5 years I'm guessing the garnishment is for arrears, right? I don't know what state you are in but if mom didn't receive the child support and it went to offset her welfare benefits there's a program in some states called "compromise of arrears" If you can show that you can't pay the arrears they will sometimes accept as little as 10% and discharge the remaining debt.
An order of guardianship for you, or custody for your son would immediately stop any support order she has. I know because we went through this. My son got custody of his son 3 years ago after finally tracking mom down, she had disappeared 18 months earlier and had spent that time living in her car with the boy who was 4 when my son got him back. My son filed for custody and when it was granted he went to DCSS and got the old support order stopped. She now has a support order against her but she doesn't work so he will never see a penny. But the kid is doing very well with dad and that's what matters
Actually no it was not arrears. There is some arrears but the case was for current support. He never filed a modification because she threatened to take the kids back if he did.
I have temporary custody order, yet to get to court for permanent custody due to serving summons but the date is being set now. They (CS) were suppose to stop the order but I was not in court so I just assume they did, the custody and child support cases are separate as of now.
Your situation sounds a lot like mine but the ex always threatened to take the kids back if she didnt get what she wanted. She was never around or helpful but threatened via. text messages and phone calls.
Thank you on the advice for the arrears. They began with 50/50 no CS then she moved out of the school district against his wishes so she had kids during the week and him on weekends. About a year later he got hit with $10,000 in arrears and started paying CS at that point. Guess she went to court and he didnt know about it. His fault because he did not stay on top of it and fight for himself.
Actually no it was not arrears. There is some arrears but the case was for current support. He never filed a modification because she threatened to take the kids back if he did.
I have temporary custody order, yet to get to court for permanent custody due to serving summons but the date is being set now. They (CS) were suppose to stop the order but I was not in court so I just assume they did, the custody and child support cases are separate as of now.
Your situation sounds a lot like mine but the ex always threatened to take the kids back if she didnt get what she wanted. She was never around or helpful but threatened via. text messages and phone calls.
Thank you on the advice for the arrears. They began with 50/50 no CS then she moved out of the school district against his wishes so she had kids during the week and him on weekends. About a year later he got hit with $10,000 in arrears and started paying CS at that point. Guess she went to court and he didnt know about it. His fault because he did not stay on top of it and fight for himself.
I feel your pain. In California you can file for compromise of arrears irregardless of past arrangements you've made to pay support the only stipulation is that it has to be welfare that received the money, if DCSS wasn't involved and custodial parent received the money directly they can't force her to accept less. PS my son went through the same intimidation tactics, when he first got custody she tried to file a kidnapping complaint with the sheriff, that didn't get very far though.
Oftentimes people don't tell the inner workings of their case.
My older brother was cheated on by his ex. She tried to take his kids. He literally went over there and took the kids home with him and raised them ever since. She tried to take him to court and he got a lawyer and got joint custody of his kids, they lived with him half the week. She moved to another state and tried to sue him for child support. He got another lawyer and fought the case and won and she was not awarded child support.
Often people don't tell everything that is going on. Unless you went to court with them you are not privy to the inner workings of the case and most of the sob stories I've heard over the years from both men and women over custody and child support were sob stories because the crying party was lazy or negligent or just didn't want to be bothered with the cases in questions.
I'll note my dad didn't stop paying child support until he was 50 years old. He had to pay back support to the government for my older sister even though he was living with her and her mother for 10 years of her life. They made him pay for her entire childhood (birth to 18) because my sister and her mom were on welfare/medicaid and other social service programs during that time. Oftentimes when there is not a way to wiggle out of these cases, it is because they involve the government and not the custodial parent as the plaintiff. Dad worked out a very small payment and just paid it off. Ending that payment coincided with him ending support as well for my youngest sister. He had a "main job" that was just dedicated to child support payments for years and did sports officiating to live off of part time and never complained about child support other than the government one but even for that one he admitted he should have put my older sister on his healthcare plan because that would have at least made what he had to pay less. After that case, he put all of us on his healthcare plan. He has 5 kids.
This is true. The government might get involved if they are being requested to dole out money, WIC, etc.
My brother and his wife had met as recovering addicts, but she didn't stay in recovery very long (their daughter was born addicted). They were divorced when their daughter was around four, and my brother did not fight for custody because his daughter was living with his mother-in-law and and his sisters-in-law took his daughter in after school and she spent time with her cousins.
He still had to pay child support to his wife, who was just getting high. Then she decided to apply for welfare. She claimed that my brother didn't pay child support, and he was required to appear in court. He did, with every cancelled check he had sent every week for child support. The judge just looked at her and said, "What do you think you are doing?" and dismissed the case. The welfare people were angry that she had wasted their time.
My brother ended up getting the support order changed so that his child support check went to his former mother-in-law instead. His ex-wife's family included him in all their family events, and they were all present at his funeral.
In some states the limit is only 12 months. The 5 year limit was many years ago before the states did their own reforms. It hasn't been 5 years in a lot of places in a long time.
Welfare is about 90% used for kids in America and it goes until they are 18 years old, or until they can find the father put him in jail take over support. The 12 month to 5 year limit is for adult welfare which is frequently turned into disability for people with drug addictions live on the streets that is for life. Depending on their work history may only be a few hundred dollars to 2-3 thousand dollars. You can be approved for being a drunk, or a drug addict. What isn't talked about in the news is how many come over the border illegally have children here in the US and put them on welfare those kids are American citizens their parents are not illegible being illegal. They get free healthcare, and about $1500 a month until they are 18. I can't say I don't blame them who would not want that coming from slums in mexico. We created the system we have to fix it or live with it.
I know someone who was raped got pregnant because she didn't want to have any contact him she never reported it. She got welfare for her son until he was 18 years old, and then notified the state on the whereabouts of the man who Date raped her. He was married, and claimed it wasn't his but DNA testing said otherwise he had to pay the state back every penny. His son never wanted to speak to him because he was 18 the courts could not force any visitations he never attempted to contact either of them.
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