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Funny how different people feel and react to this sort of thing...
More interesting to me than the slight edge Trump continues to hold since I started this poll (actually expected it to be a little heavier tilted toward Trump in this forum), more interesting and important far as I'm concerned is just how high a percent of people would flat-out NOT vote to re-elect Trump -- no ifs, ands, or buts -- and why.
What is most interesting of all are the reasons people support Trump or don't that we haven't heard before. Rare and few are those. Most common of all I think is the vote NOT for Hillary. Almost to the point of thinking that as long as Hillary isn't the choice the next go around, Trump is sure to lose...
PS: from where I am sitting, we're at only some 40 pages of nearly 400 comments.
So why do you think people were angry? It could not be because we haven't had a raise in 30 or 40 years? It could not be because politics did nothing for Americans and legal immigrants except to add to the misery? Both sides of the aisle turned against the very people that elected them into office and we said: enough is enough!
As far as: "what does that tell you about those who voted for him?" That is where you lost big time! As I have told other liberals: You failed baby kissing 101! You have about half the Country that think of themselves as hard working and you just insulted all of them! While we were called dummies and worse; what politician in their right mind runs a National campaign and only talks to half the voters? They would be committing political suicide to rely only on half the population and that half might not even vote! Of course, after we were insulted; the liberals double dared us into voting!
See many of us are actually working for you. We are trying to help bring the Democratic Party back from the edge of extinction; you just don't see it that way.
Not sure there is anything you write that most of us can't relate too, but no doubt we all draw different conclusions even though we are all watching the same political process do what it has been doing for a long time now...
People are angry for a lot of reasons, and the real question is how many of those reasons can or should the government be expected to make better? Find yourself flipping burgers by the time you turn 30? Doesn't pay enough to raise a family? Still doing manual labor and starting to feel too old for the work that also doesn't pay enough? Fresh out of a job that you thought was secure...? I used to coach displaced working professionals, and I've heard it all.
Fact is, there is not a single one political issue that hasn't been hashed and rehashed over and over by our three branches of government for a very long time now. Not a one, and not a one is Trump or anyone else addressing in any new way much better than before, not fundamentally anyway. Border security, even the wall, immigration policy, terrorism, education, health care, etc. All continues to be bandied about in Congress just like before, and Trump is NOTHING NEW OR DIFFERENT in terms of making any of those arguments.
The "dummies" are the ones who think Trump somehow represents the sort of change we need when really the only change that Trump represents is that he is a billionaire who doesn't need much support from other members of Congress to voice his opinion, right or wrong. He doesn't care about how to get things done as much as he cares about saying and doing what he feels like saying and doing. A whole lot of talk and not at all much concerned about the walk.
All this about insulting voters is also politics as usual. Remember Romney caught on tape?
Mitt Romney acknowledged just how much his "47 percent" comments -- in which he all but wrote off the votes of half the country -- had negatively impacted his chances of being president: "That hurt. There's no question that hurt and did real damage to my campaign."
Romney, Hillary, they all make the mistake of insulting voters, or is it a mistake? Who HASN'T Trump insulted?
Maybe what we need to do is grow a thicker skin and understand that politics is not a church bake sale. We need to figure out what is going on behind the scenes, in Congress, and why, rather than get all in a lather about what politicians are saying to our faces to get elected, regardless the party, regardless the insults!
Romney, Hillary, they all make the mistake of insulting voters, or is it a mistake? Who HASN'T Trump insulted?
But luck or shrewd thinking, Trump only insulted voters who would never ever have voted for him - the Hispanics, African Americans and the extreme liberals.
On the other hand Hillary insulted white class working men, who would have voted for her if she had kept those thoughts to herself. That made all the difference in those rust belt states.
What is most interesting of all are the reasons people support Trump or don't that we haven't heard before. Rare and few are those. Most common of all I think is the vote NOT for Hillary. Almost to the point of thinking that as long as Hillary isn't the choice the next go around, Trump is sure to lose....
The bolded is not necessarily true. If you bring in candidates like Kamala Harris or Warren you are going to lose to Trump once again. But if you bring in a centrist Mid western candidate like Sherrod Brown or a female but more likeable one like Tulsi Gabbard, you have a chance to get the independent centrist votes like mine and beat Trump ( if he runs).
When you first asked the question earlier this month I had some nagging doubt but the events of thsi month removed that. First Trump did a great job with the natural disasters we have had. He might not have been emotionally connected with the victims but he got the help done efficiently.
But more importantly, we had that idiotic woman Hillary blaming everyone but herself for the loss and wallowing in self pity. That woman was truly an awful candidate. It is a pity that Sanders was pushed out and she was made the democratic candidate. Thank God we dodged a bullet.
Even though I did not vote for Trump ( was for Johnson), if the choices were presented again, I would definitely vote for Trump.
Much learned from Katrina was well in place and Trump hardly did much more than come shake hands with the people who were doing their best to put those prior Katrina lessons in place. Oh, and maybe declare an emergency to help insure the funds to rebuild would follow. Giving Trump credit for that is much like giving Trump credit for the improving economy and rising stock market, but of course that's what people who want to believe in Trump always do. Doesn't even seem to matter that Trump is not "emotionally connected."
Too bad Americans can't do a better job of connecting these dots so that credit is given where it is actually due...
Hillary Clinton is NOT what makes Trump a good or bad POTUS today and should NOT be the reason anyone will vote for Trump again. Hopefully that simple fact doesn't need explaining or convincing. Had Hillary been elected, he you seem to favor, Sanders, would not have been pushed out like you can bet Trump and the GOP want to make certain continues.
Lots not to like about Hillary, can't argue with you there, but choosing Trump for that reason is to my mind something like picking rotten food over food that doesn't taste good to you. Dodging a bullet and stepping onto a live road side mine instead...
Here's to a much better choice next go around in any case!
But luck or shrewd thinking, Trump only insulted voters who would never ever have voted for him - the Hispanics, African Americans and the extreme liberals.
On the other hand Hillary insulted white class working men, who would have voted for her if she had kept those thoughts to herself. That made all the difference in those rust belt states.
Not just extreme liberals but pretty much all liberals, Muslims, women, lots of people that I won't go on about, but to suggest any of that is "shrewed?" I don't know about that...
We agree, perhaps, that the insults don't really matter when it comes to people who wouldn't vote for you anyway, but my point is that the insults are not what's all that important in the grand scheme of things. Or maybe it's just more important to consider what sort of person makes what sort of insults and why.
Also sure seems to me that people are easily insulted when they want to cast a politician in a negative light, regardless what the politician ACTUALLY said or meant in the first place. I really don't think Hillary intended or meant to insult white working class men any more that I think Obama intended or meant that a business person shouldn't take credit for their work.
In any case, I am a lot more sure what Trump meant when he said he saw thousands of Muslims cheering on 9/11 and that women will let you treat them like bowling balls if you're famous.
The bolded is not necessarily true. If you bring in candidates like Kamala Harris or Warren you are going to lose to Trump once again. But if you bring in a centrist Mid western candidate like Sherrod Brown or a female but more likeable one like Tulsi Gabbard, you have a chance to get the independent centrist votes like mine and beat Trump ( if he runs).
Agreed it makes a difference which candidate faces off against Trump this next go around, but I suspect Trump is much more likely to lose the next go around regardless, because that margin by which Trump won the last go around simply doesn't allow much if any shift along those lines if Trump is going to have a chance...
I suspect the count of people like you will be dwarfed by all the Hillary supporters who stayed home because they didn't see Trump coming, and I'm pretty sure the Democratic Party learned some hard lessons that will very likely foster a candidate far better suited to win "hearts and minds" better than Hillary did. At least not make those mistakes or carry as much baggage is Hillary did.
Keeping in mind that Hillary actually did win the popular vote that was counted, and all the more slim it seems that Trump has as good a chance the next time around, even if it WERE Hillary running against him again. What ultimately happens with North Korea will make a big difference too I think. Health care. DACA.
We've all got a while to wait and see, but not before I sign off today to get on to more productive things to do now...
Not sure there is anything you write that most of us can't relate too, but no doubt we all draw different conclusions even though we are all watching the same political process do what it has been doing for a long time now...
People are angry for a lot of reasons, and the real question is how many of those reasons can or should the government be expected to make better? Find yourself flipping burgers by the time you turn 30? Doesn't pay enough to raise a family? Still doing manual labor and starting to feel too old for the work that also doesn't pay enough? Fresh out of a job that you thought was secure...? I used to coach displaced working professionals, and I've heard it all.
Fact is, there is not a single one political issue that hasn't been hashed and rehashed over and over by our three branches of government for a very long time now. Not a one, and not a one is Trump or anyone else addressing in any new way much better than before, not fundamentally anyway. Border security, even the wall, immigration policy, terrorism, education, health care, etc. All continues to be bandied about in Congress just like before, and Trump is NOTHING NEW OR DIFFERENT in terms of making any of those arguments.
The "dummies" are the ones who think Trump somehow represents the sort of change we need when really the only change that Trump represents is that he is a billionaire who doesn't need much support from other members of Congress to voice his opinion, right or wrong. He doesn't care about how to get things done as much as he cares about saying and doing what he feels like saying and doing. A whole lot of talk and not at all much concerned about the walk.
All this about insulting voters is also politics as usual. Remember Romney caught on tape?
Mitt Romney acknowledged just how much his "47 percent" comments -- in which he all but wrote off the votes of half the country -- had negatively impacted his chances of being president: "That hurt. There's no question that hurt and did real damage to my campaign."
Romney, Hillary, they all make the mistake of insulting voters, or is it a mistake? Who HASN'T Trump insulted?
Maybe what we need to do is grow a thicker skin and understand that politics is not a church bake sale. We need to figure out what is going on behind the scenes, in Congress, and why, rather than get all in a lather about what politicians are saying to our faces to get elected, regardless the party, regardless the insults!
There is one thing different; Trump is right there supporting our law enforcement and our liberals are too worried about hurting anybody's feelings.
And, yes, much of our immigration reform depends on Congress. Both sides of the isle are fighting Trump as he tries to change our course. Does that mean he is wrong or does it mean that we have many politicians to replace in the coming elections? We will see how that works out in 2018. I will be pushing Lou Barletta for State Senator in my State and I hope that we give the boot to open borders Casey. I do acknowledge it will be a tough fight; but I think he stands a good chance. The more Senators and Representatives that we have on our side; the better the chance of change.
As far as "Dummies"; I made my point. The true dummies are the people that are looking for support and insult others. Terms, like these, make us hunker down. It gets to the point where we do not listen; even if you have valid points.
Yes; Trump has insulted his share. In many cases it was simply retaliation. Of course not all cases. But he has been the most attacked President I ever remember in my 70 years. If you don't believe me; all you had to do is tune into the Emmys last night.
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