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I would argue that the "right/left" philosophies we think of are not reflective of Nazism or Facism in general. You are picking and choosing specific things here to make your point - but are ignoring their actions, which are not "left wing" in nature.
As for why some historians place them on the right, here is an argument (which has already been cited multiple times):
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Some scholars consider fascism to be right-wing because of its social conservatism and its authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.[44][45] Roderick Stackelberg places fascism—including Nazism, which he says is "a radical variant of fascism"—on the political right by explaining: "The more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be".[46]
My personal feeling on this is that Nazism and Facism is neither "right" or "left" in the context of how we think about that political spectrum.
But please, feel free to continue trying to prove that Nazis were.
I think a lot of people, including some of the scholars, like the one you cited, have some pretty odd misconceptions when it comes to characterizing left-wing and right-wing tendencies and ideology.
Hitler's Nazi party was a socialist party that often was related to communist party!
LOL. Nazis hated commies as much as they hated Jews and trade unions. The "nazis were socialists" is a old, naive and ignorant line. It was a military dictatorship, which relied on private corporations to supply them with what they needed. If you have to relate then to left vs right, you can judge them by their views and actions, which were a far-right.
Early on some nazis, like Otto Strasser were socialists, and asked for corporations to be nationalized. The nazis executed them.
Socialism was never on their agenda, the word was used to rake in support from the working class. As a matter of fact the nazis banned the communist and socialist parties as soon as they had enough power.
There is a reason why the neo-nazis today scream "unite the right".
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 10-12-2017 at 03:38 PM..
I think a lot of people, including some of the scholars, like the one you cited, have some pretty odd misconceptions when it comes to characterizing left-wing and right-wing tendencies and ideology.
You're conflating a lot of things here. The presumption that "segregation" is a "blue" problem is a bit disingenuous, too. Especially when you break down voting patterns by city vs. suburbs. This is far more complicated than voting patterns. NIMBYism vs. YIMBYism is also complicated, and goes well beyond political party affiliation. I live in the Bay Area, and I'm hugely "YIMBY", and I'm a left-leaning person. Yes, there are people here who are very protective of their home and neighborhood ("NIMBY") - but examples of this exist in all political parties.
I don't know anyone that is on the left that would condone anything done by the Nazi party in Germany, or the Communist party in the USSR. And for that matter, I don't know anyone on the right that would, either. Which isn't really surprising.
Let's cut to the chase here and point out that we're not really dealing with examples that fit into the "left" vs. "right" breakdown that we traditionally think of.
LOL. Nazis hated commies as much as they hated Jews. The "nazis were socialists" is a old and ignorant line. It was a military dictatorship, which relied on private corporations to supply them with what they needed.
So was Mao's China and Castro's Cuba. Right-wing? Nope.
You're conflating a lot of things here. The presumption that "segregation" is a "blue" problem is a bit disingenuous, too. Especially when you break down voting patterns by city vs. suburbs. This is far more complicated than voting patterns.
You actually have to read that Chicago Magazine article to understand how it happened, and why.
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Let's cut to the chase here and point out that we're not really dealing with examples that fit into the "left" vs. "right" breakdown that we traditionally think of.
You actually have to read that Chicago Magazine article to understand how it happened, and why.
I'm well aware of the points brought up in it. It is very disingenuous to claim it is somehow linked to a political party, though. How do suburbs, even in "blue states", often vote? How did they vote historically when things were segregated? What was the historical context of when that happened? Are you familiar with the race riots? When were most of these suburbs in these older cities built up? Is there a correlation, perhaps, with these historical events (yes, there is).
"White flight" (and the corresponding segregation that resulted from it) is a complicated matter that cannot be simplified the way you are attempting to do here. There are A LOT of historical complexities here that go well beyond modern-day Democratic and Republican voting patterns.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
But, we are. And I've clearly given examples.
Are we? You keep trying to claim that Nazism and Facism are "left-wing". I'd argue that they don't fit in to the traditional left/right breakdown. Which isn't surprising since Nazis and Fascists have targeted people on both political sides through history.
Are we? You keep trying to claim that Nazism and Facism are "left-wing". I'd argue that they don't fit in to the traditional left/right breakdown. Which isn't surprising since Nazis and Fascists have targeted people on both political sides through history.
One only needs to look at the views and the actions of the nazis, to see socialism was not on their to-do list. I can understand Trump supporters trying to make this false argument, because the truth hits too close to home, which is evidenced by the neo-nazis support for Trump. The supporters are embarrassed to see who else is in their team.
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