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Old 02-21-2018, 06:45 AM
 
18,323 posts, read 10,671,957 times
Reputation: 8602

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Nobody violated the Constitution. Can you tell me what article/section they have violated?

Both Parties have used "gerrymandering" (as it is called) for many decades. As the court has now drawn the lines, they now heavily favor Democrats, even in districts that are predominantly Republican, and Republicans they are now drawn so that Republicans are now not living within districts that they represent!

This has been done by design, so that the Democrats can win Pennsylvania. More corruption on the part of Democrats. It's the only way they are able to win.
You make an accusation of corruption I would suggest you contact someone if you know about illegal goings on,thanks
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Old 02-21-2018, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,758,293 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marv95 View Post
Does it really make that much of a difference? Dems have been elected to Congress, state offices and the WH with the previous map.
It's true that voters don't necessarily vote their party. Still, a person has to wonder why, in a state where registered Ds are 50% of the voter base, with a million more registered Ds than Rs, that the legislature has been so firmly controlled by Rs, even under a D governor -
http://www.dos.pa.gov/VotingElection...VR%20Stats.pdf
https://ballotpedia.org/Party_contro...ate_government

Keep in mind that this state of affairs doesn't impact just Ds and Rs. It puts up yet another barrier for third parties. It's conceivable that in fairly drawn districts that it would be easier for a third party to organize around an issue of importance to that district, since districts ideally reflect local common interests. This means, for instance, not splitting up cities into several pie-shaped districts drawn so that rural voters dominate all the districts.

Both parties gerrymander if they can get away with it, because they want to secure as many safe, non-competitive seats for themselves as possible. Gerrymandering is a bad thing if you want to see more turnover in state legislatures and in Congress, and therefore more bipartisanship. Competitive races also increase voter participation, because more people feel that their votes matter.

http://www.governing.com/topics/poli...r-be-fair.html
http://www.fairvote.org/redistrictin...ictingoverview
https://theconversation.com/can-math...-problem-44963

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-21-2018 at 07:41 AM..
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:13 AM
 
19,573 posts, read 8,524,460 times
Reputation: 10096
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The university of Stanford professor redrew the districts and it was approved by the court.
So, some far left academic who voted for Obama twice and no-doubt passionately supports the Democrat party and the far left redrew the map - a task assigned to him by a 5-2 Democrat court - which the court then very predictably approved.

This is why the legislature is constitutionally responsible for drawing these maps and not some activist, partisan court.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:18 AM
Status: "Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,601,582 times
Reputation: 5697
We Americans desperately need an independent commission for this matter - appointments for 12 to 14 year staggered terms: The commission would hear advice from the Census Bureau, the Justice Department, and maybe a few other agencies. That way, the state congressional districts would reflect how the state as a whole votes in federal elections (10 year moving average, with maybe somewhat greater weight given to the previous five years). The UK has a Boundary Commission charged in part with drawing MP constituency boundaries. What I propose is not exactly like the UK Boundary Commissions (one for each "province") but it does approximate it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,190 posts, read 19,470,309 times
Reputation: 5305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
What I do not support is the new Democrat-court gerrymandered map.
What SPECIFIC way, what districts do you believe is a Democratic gerrymander in this new map?
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Old 02-21-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
22,190 posts, read 19,470,309 times
Reputation: 5305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
This is going to be a long fight over this here in Pa. Looking at it, the new map isn't much better than the old one, both are geared to favor one political party over the other. My county gets split three ways down from four. Hoorah.
What can we expect from politicians and elected officials? Corruption and incompetence seem to be about right.
In what specific ways is the new map a gerrymander? Which county are you in btw?
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,758,293 times
Reputation: 15482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713 View Post
So, some far left academic who voted for Obama twice and no-doubt passionately supports the Democrat party and the far left redrew the map - a task assigned to him by a 5-2 Democrat court - which the court then very predictably approved.

This is why the legislature is constitutionally responsible for drawing these maps and not some activist, partisan court.
Interesting. In which universe do you reside? Here in this one, legislatures are composed of party members, who are both activist and partisan - that's why they ran for office. Please explain how the people in your universe keep activists and partisans out of their legislatures.

Also, it's not a fact that every state legislature is constitutionally responsible for districting. IIRC, from the voluminous references I posted above, the legislature is responsible in 28 states. In the 22 others, some other method is used. And they all have some final arbiter process. In Pennsylvania, their constitution provides that the final arbiter is - guess who? - the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

If this bothers you so much, you'll just have to move to Pennsylvania and start a movement to amend their constitution so it meets your standards. Keep us updated, I for one am dying to know how well that will work out for you.

Last edited by jacqueg; 02-21-2018 at 10:14 AM..
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,710,498 times
Reputation: 14818
Exactly like that.

It's wrong no matter which party does it.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:20 AM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,828,810 times
Reputation: 8442
Hoping they do the same thing here in Ohio soon.

It is ridiculous that I live in NW Ohio yet I am in the same congressional district as the City of Cleveland....very ridiculous

I like the new PA maps and think it is much simpler that the jigsaw puzzle the GOP created before.

And FWIW Democrats have a history of doing the same thing. There should always be a bi-partisan group or non-partisan group drawing these maps IMO.
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Old 02-21-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
25,826 posts, read 20,710,498 times
Reputation: 14818
It is absolutely head-shaking that anyone would object to districts as these have been re-drawn.

Each district is now is a wholly contained entity as it should be.

For those who object, I really wish someone would explain how or why having districts that snake across random parts of the state is a good thing anywhere.

Anyone?
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