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It's not relative in this conversation. Kudos to you though for trying to use smoke and mirrors.
The United States has violated international laws. Whether we've been charged or found guilty or not does not negate the actions we've taken.
The right and wrong discussion is important to have, because it helps to define who we are as a nation. Our actions aren't always honorable. Our acknowledgement of that fact, and our efforts in the future to do the right thing are important.
I'm not accusing Ms Haspel of wrong-doing. I'm referencing the Congressional Record, which documents her participation in programs that the CIA conducted which were a violation of international law.
Your logic isn't logic. Your arguments wouldn't stand up in any court.
That is your opinion about who we are as a nation. Perhaps some of us don't like your vision of this nation. That is what voting is for.
If the United States has violated international laws, then the United States would have been charged or found guilty by now. The United States has not violated international laws.
She hasn't violated international law until found guilty. The same applies to the United States. A person or country hasn't violated any laws until guilty.
My logic is logical. Until found guilty, the person or country has not violated any laws.
The constitution is specific, "any person shall be presumed innocent until found guilty by a final decision of the court." Thus, until a person is found guilt, that person is innocent.
A more ironic statement for someone slated to head the CIA has never been written.
Do you realize what the CIA both has done and IS still doing on a global basis?
But don't worry, we don't interfere in elections like the Russians did....that would be illegal.
I suppose assassinating a foreign leader would be illegal too, good thing we never tried that!
Spying, breaking treaties, sabotaging nuclear equipment, illegal arms sales, bribing tribal groups to commit acts of terrorism in other countries? Yep, illegal....but we'd never do such things.
It's not relative in this conversation. Kudos to you though for trying to use smoke and mirrors.
The United States has violated international laws. Whether we've been charged or found guilty or not does not negate the actions we've taken.
The right and wrong discussion is important to have, because it helps to define who we are as a nation. Our actions aren't always honorable. Our acknowledgement of that fact, and our efforts in the future to do the right thing are important.
I'm not accusing Ms Haspel of wrong-doing. I'm referencing the Congressional Record, which documents her participation in programs that the CIA conducted which were a violation of international law.
Your logic isn't logic. Your arguments wouldn't stand up in any court.
If we're going to hold up international law as a standard, we should reflect upon it's enforcement and power.
Imagine that we live next door to each other and I steal from your house every day when you leave. You catch me on video, turn it over to the police and they drop all charges every single time. Or they tell me I have to give it back but there is no penalty for ignoring the order.
I'm not calling you a liar. I'm saying that you aren't being honest with yourself, and therefore not being honest with those of us having this conversation with you.
Oh my God, now I am not being honest with myself.
Give me a break!
Why do you have to do such an idiotic thing?
If you have made your damned mind about me, then why bother even having ANY type of conversation with me then?
I have an opinion, the American way of waterboarding is not "torture", that is my OPINION. I certainly don't know why you are now saying" I am not being honest with myself." Holy crap
Just because I don't agree with you, that means I am not being honest with myself? Are you for real?
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 03-13-2018 at 01:52 PM..
That is your opinion about who we are as a nation. Perhaps some of us don't like your vision of this nation. That is what voting is for.
If the United States has violated international laws, then the United States would have been charged or found guilty by now. The United States has not violated international laws.
She hasn't violated international law until found guilty. The same applies to the United States. A person or country hasn't violated any laws until guilty.
My logic is logical. Until found guilty, the person or country has not violated any laws.
The constitution is specific, "any person shall be presumed innocent until found guilty by a final decision of the court." Thus, until a person is found guilt, that person is innocent.
Or you have no justification for your point, because you support torture BY Americans while condemning it and being ok with execution when done AGAINST Americans.
That's not a cheap shot just because you have zero moral consistency in your positions.
Again, cheap shot + personal attack =/= counter argument
Ive already explained it to you, and if you don't agree, then offer counter argument. Personal attack is not making your argument stronger. Just sayin'
In case you missed it
Here is the explaination
Waterboarding actually refers to two different interrogation techniques. One involves pumping water directly into the stomach. This would be torture
The other technique — the one more widely used today — involves choking the victim by filling their throat with a steady stream of water — a sort of "slow-motion drowning" that was perfected by Dutch traders in the 17th century. They used it against their British rivals in the East Indies. It is hardly torture.
So depends on how they do it, one would be torture, the other one is not.
That is your opinion about who we are as a nation. Perhaps some of us don't like your vision of this nation. That is what voting is for.
If the United States has violated international laws, then the United States would have been charged or found guilty by now. The United States has not violated international laws.
She hasn't violated international law until found guilty. The same applies to the United States. A person or country hasn't violated any laws until guilty.
My logic is logical. Until found guilty, the person or country has not violated any laws.
The constitution is specific, "any person shall be presumed innocent until found guilty by a final decision of the court." Thus, until a person is found guilt, that person is innocent.
Your vision of our nation is that we torture people? And you don't like my vision of a nation that is principled and does not torture people? Hmm...that certainly tells us a lot about you.
Your remark about the United States is voided by your previous posts. That's how logic works, my friend.
And no, my friend, just because someone hasn't been found guilty does not mean they are innocent. People get away with committing crimes every day. Most of those people don't have the federal government of the United States running interference for them.
Your logic isn't logical. It's circular. He's not guilty because he hasn't been found guilty in a court of law is circular logic. And that's not a good thing.
In the meantime, the Congressional Record documents Ms Haspel's activities. That's a FACT. You do know what a FACT is, don't you?
Your vision of our nation is that we torture people? And you don't like my vision of a nation that is principled and does not torture people? Hmm...that certainly tells us a lot about you.
Your remark about the United States is voided by your previous posts. That's how logic works, my friend.
And no, my friend, just because someone hasn't been found guilty does not mean they are innocent. People get away with committing crimes every day. Most of those people don't have the federal government of the United States running interference for them.
Your logic isn't logical. It's circular. He's not guilty because he hasn't been found guilty in a court of law is circular logic. And that's not a good thing.
In the meantime, the Congressional Record documents Ms Haspel's activities. That's a FACT. You do know what a FACT is, don't you?
No, He and many of us believe that "innocent until proven guilty."
The constitution is specific, "any person shall be presumed innocent until found guilty by a final decision of the court." Thus, until a person is found guilt, that person is innocent.
So she is innocent, your personal opinion of her is irrelevant.
President Obama decided not to prosecute anyone who followed orders, or officials who approved the policy. There is a reason for that.
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