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It is heartbreaking to realize that this is what people commonly say about our president of these United States.
Yet, everyone knows it ... actually around the world, not just here but literally everywhere.
Sad!
What was interesting to me is when Republican pundits, Trump supporters have been presented with evidence that Trump makes stuff up, lies, is misinformed (however you choose to see it) -- they smile and say something to the effect "That's who he is...we all know he is inclined to stretch the truth to make a point."
So Liberal ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ Professor of Constitutional Law, Emeritus Felix Frankfurter Professor of Law at Harvard Law has also been had I guess I'm in good company MAGA
If you want to explain how this raid, which is far from the first of its kind, will have any chilling effect on attorney-client relations, you are free to do so. Given that I have first-hand knowledge and experience of exactly how the attorney-client privilege works in both Federal and State Courts, how it applies, and what it protects, I anxiously await to hear your view on this point.
(Also, the Attorney-Client privilege has nothing to do with Constitutional Law. Just FYI.)
This wasn't a search and seizure, or investigation, by the Mueller team. Mueller ran across info re Cohen, which he then got approval from Rosenstein to refer to the appropriate authorities, which is the normal procedure for investigations.
Mueller then referred that info to the Southern District of New York, who took it and got and executed a search warrant. High levels at the DOJ and a judge had to approve this. It's unusual to search and seize an attorney's office.
I "might" have gotten the facts first. You "might" want to tone down the sarcasm to be taken seriously.
Nothing in the above quoted blurb counters my statements in this thread. The political look and effect is and will be what I stated. The rampant anti-Trump bias invalidates your assertions of unbiased procedure in this matter, insofar as how it looks politically and in spite of claims. If Mueller and/or the FBI didn't want to further flirt with the look of a partisan witch hunt, they should have stayed in their lane and not instigated or otherwise enabled this wholly unusual breach of attorney-client privilege for a recently elected POTUS.
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The head of the SD of NY that did the search & seizure is Geoffrey Berman, a Trump appointee, a Republican.
An utterly laughable point. So what? There haven't been anti-Trump Republicans? There are busloads of them. He hasn't had issues with gaining appointees that weren't politically biased against Trump? Those exist in spades as well.
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Rosenstein, a Republican, approved the referral.
See above.
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Others at the DOJ would have known about it. No one stopped it. That means the evidence must be strong, and there was strong indication that Cohen would not produce the docs voluntarily or might destroy them.
This is conjecture which does not invalidate how this looks or will play politically.
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This is not a witch hunt. This is the rule of law being executed in a normal way for the crime being investigated (again...this isn't the Russia investigation by Mueller...that's why Mueller referred it; it's not part of his mandate for his investigation).
See above.
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No one is above the law. The law is king here. We are a nation of laws. Cohen is being investigated for bank fraud and wire fraud, it seems. Blame the criminal for his crimes, not the law.
If the law were King here, Hillary would have been indicted for possession of SAPs and the deletion of her emails. You likely justify any excuse to flout the law when your candidate's behind is on the line, but become Joe Justice when it isn't. And it isn't me that you have to convince, necessarily. It's the half of the nation that this is playing out in front of as an utterly corrupt witch hunt, which is highlighted by Clinton's evasion of the law under the purview of the expressly anti-Trump FBI. Like I implied, the political capital denied by and ultimate fallout will determine the long term effects of what later occurs.
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This shows that our legal system is working, in the face of mobster-like pushing against it. If Cohen is not guilty, there will be no evidence of guilt. (But to do such a search & seizure, yu can take it to the bank that there's something there, or they wouldn't have done this.)
Like it did with Clinton? Wait...
Remind me, are you guys only pro FBI and DOJ or are you also pro cop? Being all pro justice and everything. I remember a recent Dem administration that attacked cops for much of it.
Your politics are transparent.
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Also...the FBI didn't "break into" Cohen's office and temp residence, as Trump says. It was a legal search and seizure. No breaking and entering involved. The atty-client privilege is waived for the seizing of items, but they will have procedures in place to protect attorney-client privilege not related to what's being investigated. BUT there is no atty-client privilege, if they're involved in criminal activities, of course.
Ok. But see the above and aforementioned notes on how this will play politically should anything come of it.
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This is not an end to democracy. This IS democracy. The departments of the govt do not work for any one person. They are supposed to be loyal to the law. Trump does not like that. He thinks the AG is his personal lawyer. He's not.
Self-soothing and rationalizations. It's NOT democracy when the FBI involved in the investigation has been expressly anti-Trump. Nor when so much of our institutions have been. It wasn't democracy when the MSM either altered polls or engaged in bad polling methods to demoralize Trump voters. It wasn't democracy when Strozk and Page revealed a severe anti-Trump bias. It wasn't democracy when the FISA warrant was issued based on an application that included purchased Russian (dis)information.
You have a very selective accounting of the situation that at least half of the nation chooses to see as a much wider pattern. And they'd be correct.
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The question is: Who is Trump going to fire in his temper tantrum over this? Or will he wag the dog and bomb Syria, as a diversion?
Oh please, with the conspiracies. Here's some reality for you, because you obviously have such a difficult time with it: Syria is getting bombed regardless. And taken. By Dem or Republican. And then it'll be Iran. By Dem or Republican. Wake up. And I don't mean to a conspiracy. I mean to the obvious reality that's been blatantly staring you in the face for at least 16.5 years now. Everything, and I do mean everything, that has occurred and that you've seen in that region is pointing to one single thing. Wake up to it, and rightly hold any Dem or Republican who campaigns on or who otherwise tells you differently a vicious liar.
Stop lying to yourself. They wont' stop with just Trump. They'll come after even YOU if you dare disagree with them. They are Communists, plain and simple! They are thousands of times worse than Joe McCarthy during the Red Scare. At least he, unlike the Deep State and Comrade Mueller, was RIGHT about a lot of what he was claiming.
Why do I have this funny feeling that you would come after people who disagree with you with at least as much enthusiasm as you attribute to your alleged enemies?
Attorney-client privilege never protected lawyers against properly conducted raids. The attorney client privilege is a man-made evidentiary rule designed to encourage open attorney-client communications as a matter of public policy. Public policy does not demand blanket protection from seizure and independent review of the communications for privilege, nor is it designed to encourage or protect communications used to further criminal acts (hence the crime-fraud exception). If you think Friday's raid affects or has any type of chilling effect on attorney-client relations, you've been had.
I usually agree with you, but I think you might be wrong this time. Cohen has one client, Donald Trump. It's inevitable that a deep dive into his finances is going to uncover a lot of Trump stuff.
I think the cult is right to view this as a direct threat to Trump. It's quite obvious Trump does.
I know this wasn't directed at me but I made the same assumption that Cohen may have other clients/business not related to Trump. That's why I asked if Trump was his only client.
I wasn't sure. I was thinking some big time lawyer with big time clientS -- multiple.
Thanks for clearing it up
I still don't think Trump is guilty of a crime....he's guilty of lots of stuff but not sure he is guilty of a crime.
Cohen on the other hand -- meh -- he's a creep and been fighting Trump battles for years. Who knows what he got himself into.
Mueller,
Rosenstein,
Sessions,
Berman
& the federal judge who signed off on the warrant -- are all part of the big conspiracy?
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Originally Posted by NeutralParty
I sure hope Cohen had the wherewithal to not keep any hard copy records of any evidence and deleted all the e-mails and electronic records of any wrong-doing. Because the FBI now has possession of all his electronic devices and hard copy files.
This is a guy who had to get 130K from his bank under the pretense of 2nd mortgage on his home to pay off a porn star
Do you really think he is going to be extra careful about his past misdeeds?
Somehow I doubt that--
Mainly because I think Cohen believes that living and working under the Trump umbrella is supposed to make him bullet-proof...
He has never faced any real opposition from a serious source like Mueller, et al before
This guy is a clown--
Remember how he and two other syncophants went to Flynn with a "peace" plan right after the election?
He went to a 3rd tier law school
He is not Law Review material...
I love seeing people on TV saying "taint team" with a straight face.
Should the "taint team" not do it's job correctly; a challenge of "admissibility" would render what they've allowed to pass as unadmissible and perhaps risk having the whole case go south.
Do you really think they'd risk that happening over simple political bias?
Mueller,
Rosenstein,
Sessions,
Berman
& the federal judge who signed off on the warrant -- are all part of the big conspiracy?
Yes, that's what they believe. Here's a sample of one of their comments from a local Facebook group this morning:
"They have to dredge up whatever they can find and keep it afloat. They are doing everything they can to make Trump look bad so that they can get their lying assed Liberal agenda back in full swing. If it was not for truth being spread on Facebook, we'd ALL need a large tube of Vaseline, because the deep state is trying to screw us all."
.....the "truth" being spread on Facebook. These people are beyond all logic and reason.
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MAGA
