Pelosi: 'Medicare for All' should be 'evaluated' if Dems win House (lobby, insurance)

[mike1003]

Originally Posted by JAMS14

Every other country in the civilized world figured out how to do it. Are you saying the whole world is smarter than we are?

A close friend had a heart attack while in Montreal at a convention. He slept in a hallway by the emergency room for 7 days. Finally got so pi$$ed off that he hired a limo to take him to a hospital in the US

I was at a management class in San Francisco (American Management Association) There was a nun in the class. She was the President of Sister's of Mercy in Canada. Her mother fell and broke her hip. Sister (I forgot her name) arranged for one of her hospitals providing a helicopter to transfer mom to Seattle to have surgery the next day, as opposed to 3 weeks later in Canada.

Another close friend broke his hip while on vacation in France. The hospital wait was so long that he chartered a medical flight (he had unbelievable insurance) to New York for the surgery the next day.

I know at least 5 Canadians who personally pay for US medical insurance.

I have several more great personal accounts of how several "countries in the civilized world" have such great medical insurance.

Give me a break!

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by mike1003

A close friend had a heart attack while in Montreal at a convention. He slept in a hallway by the emergency room for 7 days. Finally got so pi$$ed off that he hired a limo to take him to a hospital in the US

I was at a management class in San Francisco (American Management Association) There was a nun in the class. She was the President of Sister's of Mercy in Canada. Her mother fell and broke her hip. Sister (I forgot her name) arranged for one of her hospitals providing a helicopter to transfer mom to Seattle to have surgery the next day, as opposed to 3 weeks later in Canada.

Another close friend broke his hip while on vacation in France. The hospital wait was so long that he chartered a medical flight (he had unbelievable insurance) to New York for the surgery the next day.

I know at least 5 Canadians who personally pay for US medical insurance.

I have several more great personal accounts of how several "countries in the civilized world" have such great medical insurance.

Give me a break!

The "I know a guy" anecdotes are entertaining but I live two hours from Canada and know many Canadians. They LOVE their health care and think Americans are stupid when it comes to our health coverage.

I had Lasik done in Canada and paid out of pocket. It was much cheaper there even for an American.

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

That's just pure BS. Their workers have less net adjusted disposable household income than American workers:



OECD Better Life Index

Funny. You dont know the difference between "average" and "median". Of course labor rights are useless when you use "average" as a metric. Strong unions ensure a reasonable level of inequality, unlike in Lousiana, Alabama and Latin America where unions are destroyed. Power is a zero sum game and in America, the ruling class is the billionaire class. Not you. Thats why people with pre-existing conditions will no longer get insurance. Because the ruling class dont need insurance. But you do.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

It only works because they have a 40-50% tax-to-GDP ratio and strong unions with great labor rights. Latin America also has high VATs and its an utter disaster, just like in Louisiana and Alabama with their high sales taxes.

Many Euro-States like Sweden and Germany are privatizing their healthcare systems.

Let's see what the former German Minister of Health has to say about that:

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income.

Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent."

Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps


When there's not enough money, healthcare is rationed by being diluted, delayed or denied.

"German doctors are not always able to provide patients with the care they need due to financial constraints, according to medical chiefs in the country."
German doctors fear health care rationing | Germany| News and in-depth reporting from Berlin and beyond | DW | 19.01.2010


=========================
https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...blic-services/
Europe’s health systems on life support
Paying for ‘results’ and sin taxes are among the measures to curb costs, change behavior.

Europe’s health care systems aren’t feeling very well.
Doctors have been threatening massive strikes in Britain to protest pay and conditions. Italian regions are going bankrupt trying to fund medicines. Drugmakers are pulling diabetes drugs from Germany, blaming government-set prices that don’t let them recoup their investment.


Highly specialized medicines for diseases like cancer are entering the market at sky-high prices, forcing governments to choose between the need to treat their citizens and the need to spend wisely. And in many countries, people head straight to the hospital when they’re feeling sick, which makes treating patients especially expensive.

Patients suffering from multiple chronic diseases “need a lifelong relation[ship] with the health care system and they have problems that are much more costly than other patient groups,” Sweden’s Health Minister Gabriel Wikström said. The health care system has to stop treating one disease at a time and be more integrated so it can focus on patients who often suffer from multiple diseases at once, Wikström added.
Money, money
European health systems tend to fall into one of two categories: They are funded either by general tax revenues or through payroll contributions. Either way, the money coming in fluctuates with economic cycles. That fluctuation has been complicated by austerity measures in some countries following the recent financial crisis.
The privatization route
European systems generally draw from taxes on employment or general tax revenues to finance health care. In the Netherlands and Switzerland, health systems are financed from a mix of compulsory public and heavily regulated private insurance.
It doesn’t make the system cheaper for the public, according to James.
Some governments are looking at linking the level or speed of care to people’s lifestyle and bad habits.
Obese or smoking patients would have been put at the bottom of the waiting list for surgeries that were not threatening their life in the U.K.’s Vale of York region, under a recent proposal. Opposition to the plan erupted before it was put into practice and the National Health Service halted it for review.
Penalizing people for their lifestyle discriminates against those lower on the income and education scales, according to AIM’s boss Aarnout. The discussion on where solidarity begins and ends and where everyone’s responsibility for their own health lies is a hard ethical debate, he said.


==============================


Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps



how

by rationing ….. when there's not enough money for the month, healthcare gets diluted, delayed or denied altogether.

[mike1003]

Originally Posted by T-310

No pay for your own stuff. Don’t rely on other people to carry your dead ass.

BINGO!!!!!!!! We have a winner

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

Funny. You dont know the difference between "average" and "median". Of course labor rights are useless when you use "average" as a metric. Strong unions ensure a reasonable level of inequality, unlike in Lousiana, Alabama and Latin America where unions are destroyed. Power is a zero sum game and in America, the ruling class is the billionaire class. Not you. Thats why people with pre-existing conditions will no longer get insurance. Because the ruling class dont need insurance. But you do.

unions...which USED to be a good thing... destroyed the middleclass... they became the 'monster ' of a corporation

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by mike1003

BINGO!!!!!!!! We have a winner

Should we end Medicare too since seniors only pay a third of the benefits they receive?

[mike1003]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

Many Euro-States like Sweden and Germany are privatizing their healthcare systems.

Let's see what the former German Minister of Health has to say about that:

"In the past 20 years, our overriding philosophy has been that the health system cannot spend more than its income.

Virtual budgets are also set up at the regional levels; these ensure that all participants in the system—including the health insurance funds and providers— know from the beginning of the year onward how much money can be spent."

Source: How Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps


When there's not enough money, healthcare is rationed by being diluted, delayed or denied.

"German doctors are not always able to provide patients with the care they need due to financial constraints, according to medical chiefs in the country."
German doctors fear health care rationing | Germany| News and in-depth reporting from Berlin and beyond | DW | 19.01.2010


=========================
https://www.politico.eu/article/euro...blic-services/
Europe’s health systems on life support
Paying for ‘results’ and sin taxes are among the measures to curb costs, change behavior.

Europe’s health care systems aren’t feeling very well.
Doctors have been threatening massive strikes in Britain to protest pay and conditions. Italian regions are going bankrupt trying to fund medicines. Drugmakers are pulling diabetes drugs from Germany, blaming government-set prices that don’t let them recoup their investment.


Highly specialized medicines for diseases like cancer are entering the market at sky-high prices, forcing governments to choose between the need to treat their citizens and the need to spend wisely. And in many countries, people head straight to the hospital when they’re feeling sick, which makes treating patients especially expensive.

Patients suffering from multiple chronic diseases “need a lifelong relation[ship] with the health care system and they have problems that are much more costly than other patient groups,” Sweden’s Health Minister Gabriel Wikström said. The health care system has to stop treating one disease at a time and be more integrated so it can focus on patients who often suffer from multiple diseases at once, Wikström added.
Money, money
European health systems tend to fall into one of two categories: They are funded either by general tax revenues or through payroll contributions. Either way, the money coming in fluctuates with economic cycles. That fluctuation has been complicated by austerity measures in some countries following the recent financial crisis.
The privatization route
European systems generally draw from taxes on employment or general tax revenues to finance health care. In the Netherlands and Switzerland, health systems are financed from a mix of compulsory public and heavily regulated private insurance.
It doesn’t make the system cheaper for the public, according to James.
Some governments are looking at linking the level or speed of care to people’s lifestyle and bad habits.
Obese or smoking patients would have been put at the bottom of the waiting list for surgeries that were not threatening their life in the U.K.’s Vale of York region, under a recent proposal. Opposition to the plan erupted before it was put into practice and the National Health Service halted it for review.
Penalizing people for their lifestyle discriminates against those lower on the income and education scales, according to AIM’s boss Aarnout. The discussion on where solidarity begins and ends and where everyone’s responsibility for their own health lies is a hard ethical debate, he said.


==============================


Germany is reining in health care costs: An interview with Franz Knieps



how

by rationing ….. when there's not enough money for the month, healthcare gets diluted, delayed or denied altogether.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...the-world.html

[JAMS14]

Originally Posted by mike1003

BINGO!!!!!!!! We have a winner

You have a trust fund, too, that you did absolutely nothing to earn but was simply handed to you? Because the poster you just quoted does. It's easy to tell everyone else to get off their "dead asses" when you yourself did nothing but put your hand out and a trust fund was dropped into it, huh?

[PCALMike]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

Many Euro-States like Sweden and Germany are privatizing their healthcare systems.

Public spending as a share of total health care spending has been basically flat for decades in those countries. So what are you talking about? Clearly not reality. Germany has been tinkering with their national health care system for 140 years since its inception. Its nothing new.