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With all the money we now pay to insurance companies, not for actual health care, but for lots of folks to get rich, wouldn't you like that to go straight into healthcare? And you feel that there will be "tons of corruption" with single payer, but what about the "tons of corruption" taking place in the wheeling and dealing insurance companies? There are problems with any system, and it is ridiculous to assume that our current system is efficient and corruption free.
Having a choice is the best defense against corruption and best bet for a consumer. Understand that we don't currently have a choice because the ACA took much of that away, but taking more away isn't going to improve things. IMO the country is too big and unwieldy to pull off single payer, and I don't want one entity holding all the cards.
I think it’s tasteless to not want to help others in need of healthcare.
Not when the obese, cigarette smokers, and drug users in society utilize healthcare far more than the healthy. Why should society be punished because people want their junk food and cancer sticks?
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Originally Posted by Mach50
We’d rather pad the pockets of insurance companies and lawyers.
Then you should be a lawyer or work for an insurance company.
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Originally Posted by Mach50
Soon when employers no longer offer insurance without high deductibles, I think that will be the inflection point for UHC.
Your thinking is illogical and the poor people of this country will never agree to be taxed more to pay for your healthcare.
feel free to move to one of those socialist countries.
Agreed, something tells me liberals don't want to wait 5 months to see a doctor and let the government decide how long their elderly parents get to live.
feel free to move to one of those socialist countries.
You do know that nobody uses the word 'socialism' anymore, except in America? Many American citizens tie themselves in knots about health care.
Providing UHC in America would be very difficult. The ones gaining from the system as it stands, would fight tooth and nail to stop it.
Part of this fight are scare stories, which always get in the news. 'They' make sure it does.
Yes, UHC would have to be funded from taxation. There are many ways to do this, to ensure all pay. Higher sales tax........ more tax on gas........ things that all folks do. Obviously, this would be offset by no more insurance charges for health care.
The real problem is the American mind set. There are some very selfish people, with their, 'I got mine' mentality. Plus a genuine feeling in some, that they are responsible for their own health care, and not for others.
But, what you're doing right now is very expensive, and causing massive worry for those who become ill.
We have had UHC in Britain for 70 years. The government don't run the NHS, which seems to be a fear among some Americans. A fear they would make a mess of it, like so much else. The British government fund the NHS from taxation, but it is run by health care professionals.
It is not perfect, but nothing is. It is run for the benefit of citizens, and there are no bean counters working out bills like in America.
I have seen the NHS at work all my life. It is a wonderful thing, taken for granted by British citizens. It is just there when they need it, so no one thinks much about it one way or the other.
To organise UHC in America would be a massive task, and would take years of thought, and would need grit and determination to carry it through. It was the same here in 1948. We had come exhausted out of a long and bloody war. Fortunately, we voted in a 'socialist' government, who wanted to change certain things for the better, for all citizens.
Doctor's organisations fought hard against the formation of the NHS. They liked things just the way they were. Even the great Winston Churchill, out of power in 1948 fought against it. But nobody today would even dream of getting rid of the NHS, and move to an insurance based system, as you find in America.
Most all modern nations have UHC funded one way or another by taxation. This ensures citizens aren't bankrupted by illness. Many forward thinking Americans want this for the US. It's just how to do it against interested parties content with things as they are.
You will always have folks saying 'yes, but......' Always trying to give reasons why it works elsewhere, but wouldn't work in America. I was brought up from childhood with a belief that America was known for a 'can do' attitude. Nothing was impossible, if folks worked together.
Because it takes 10x longer to see a doctor? (See canada)
Because you'll see a smaller paycheck when its taxed out of your paystub
Because we have millions of undocumented citizens who would further bog down the system
The government is not known for its efficiency and you surely don't want them in control of your sick grandparents.
False. This always comes up when people talk about UHC. To see my doctor takes just as long as it does in the US. I call, make an appointment, they fit me in the next available time slot. If I want to see someone sooner, the clinic will book me with another doctor. If I'm still not happy with the time, I can go to ANY medical clinic as a walk-in. Any. There are no " networks " or worrying about which doctor is covered by my insurance etc.
Of course if it's an emergency, an emergency ward is where I would go. If I need to call an ambulance to my home, in BC it cost $50 CDN if I'm treated at home, $80 CDN if they transport me to hospital. Nothing if they come to me, as in a car accident.
If my condition requires a specialist, and my GP recommends one, there may be a waiting period, depending if it's elective, or non-urgent. If it's urgent, there is no wait.
I speak from many experiences with family and friends with several types of cancers, and other major illnesses, including Brain Tumours, throat cancer, breast cancer etc.
I can also pick the specialist I want. One friend who needed non-urgent shoulder surgery, decided to wait longer because he wanted the surgeon that has worked on professional athletes. His choice. He could of chosen a surgeon with a shorter list. There is a website for patients to pick and choose.
The freedom of having absolutely no worries about co-pays, deductibles, transferability, networks, fighting insurance companies over bills, is a godsend, compared to those in the US, who may be very stressed about all of this. Let alone a catastrophic illness.
Doctors enjoy NOT having to check with an insurance provider to see if the professionally chosen treatment that the doctor recommends is covered. The procedure that the doctor believes is the best choice medically, is given, with very few exceptions. For instance a condition that could be helped by shots, or small surgery, the surgery may be covered but not the shots. However people who work, or some retirement packages may have extra private insurance that will cover it.
Your grandparent scenario is off. I think where some Americans make a mistake, is that they think that in a system like Canada's, where it's the insurance that is socialized, not the medical staff etc, that people have the same issues with the insurer. They don't. People never see a bill. With very few exceptions ( usually a new unapproved drug ) hear we don't cover that. There isn't a feeling of government control, because the government is not involved in your, or your grandparents medical care. They are only the mostly unseen insurer.
As for taxes, Canada seems to be doing fine. Wealthy country, with one of the highest standards of living and quality of life in the world. One of those reasons is because no one goes bankrupt for care, or sick from worrying about it.
Agreed, something tells me liberals don't want to wait 5 months to see a doctor and let the government decide how long their elderly parents get to live.
See, there you go Rocky......... spreading lies you have seen somewhere, and believe, because well, I read it, or saw a talking head on the telly say so. It must be true!!
I can see a doctor anytime I want. If I pick up the phone right now, and ring my local practice, I can make an appointment to see a doctor this morning.
The government decides how long elderly parents get to live? I watched the NHS struggle valiantly last year, to save my wife's 92 year old mother. An operation on cancer found in her bladder, and another for a broken hip.
Don't believe nonsense you read, or see on the telly. Don't you see? It's propaganda. Sure, the NHS makes mistakes. It is dealing with many millions of people constantly. But, I have seen it up close, and you haven't. It is a fantastic organisation.
It is something we can actually see with our own eyes, where our taxes are being spent. How often do you get to see shiny missiles you pay for?
Obamacare is the absolute worst thing that ever happened to health care! Nobody, liberal or conservative, should support Obamacare after all the ills it has brought to so many people...people who are low wage earners who cannot afford this fraudulent act called Obamacare.
When Obama first bragged about this it was called "free health care." Then he changed it to "affordable health care." Now it is neither free or affordable and none of the low income citizens can afford this government run insurance. It was better when we had competition. Now the government has become the deity progressives have always desired to worship. And who does this benefit? I question if even the wealthy benefit from it. I think its a loser plan all the way around with nobody benefiting except the politicians who passed the bill without even reading it!
So those low income earners have to pay about a $650.00 fine come tax season. They get no money back from the government and owe the government money they cannot afford to pay out. So the poor are at the mercy of a government they were duped into believing would help them. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. The fine they cannot afford to pay at the end of the year is cheaper for them than paying the actual costs of a health care system that is utterly worthless.
So turning the government into the insurance company only monopolized healthcare in the most negative manner possible. I remember years ago, before Obama was President, I had a rare eyes disorder that was not cheap to treat. I had two MRI scams done for free because thankfully back then there were programs out there that would help those struggling with high health care costs. Those programs are now done away with under Obamacare and nobody can get quality health care anymore.
I find it hard to believe there are still people out there who support the atrocity called Obamacare. Those people must be very wealthy and have no idea what its like to not be another person besides themselves. Its selfishness and ignorance that is driving this Obamacare madness. Meanwhile, families are paying the price for it and slumping lower and deeper into poverty. But hey, they got food stamps, right? Yeah, that will make them happy
This thread will now follow the well trodden path of thoughtful posts from Americans who know the system as it stands needs to change.
We will also get some 'we don't want us no socialist medicine in America.....'
My advice is....... just sit down, and think. Can we have better healthcare than we have now, at less cost. American healthcare is the most expensive in the world, per head. Yet, many folks have poor cover, and some none at all.
It needs reform, and profit needs removing from health care. You are not selling cars here. This is the health of the nation, and change is needed.
Do you notice there is always extra money for defence? President Trump has announced massive new funds for this. Who do you think is paying for that? Well you are!!
This thread will now follow the well trodden path of thoughtful posts from Americans who know the system as it stands needs to change.
We will also get some 'we don't want us no socialist medicine in America.....'
My advice is....... just sit down, and think. Can we have better healthcare than we have now, at less cost. American healthcare is the most expensive in the world, per head. Yet, many folks have poor cover, and some none at all.
It needs reform, and profit needs removing from health care. You are not selling cars here. This is the health of the nation, and change is needed.
It will go down the same path as all the other threads on CD about this topic. Lies, exaggerations, and some really, really bizarre beliefs and ideas on how things work.
We can try, but we will never be able to convince some people...because....dare I say? They have been brainwashed into believing the propaganda put out by those who profit from the status quo.
It will go down the same path as all the other threads on CD about this topic. Lies, exaggerations, and some really, really bizarre beliefs and ideas on how things work.
We can try, but we will never be able to convince some people...because....dare I say? They have been brainwashed into believing the propaganda put out by those who profit from the status quo.
Yes, it is difficult talking with people who have grown up thinking in a certain way. They seize on certain news stories, and shout 'see...... it doesn't work. We're better off as we are......'
Even Vice-President Pence mouthed off about something in the news a while back. I watched him, and thought "you should be ashamed of yourself." Just another mouthpiece for the insurance companies.
But, I think change is coming. Real slow, but things are getting so bad, and citizens so angry at things as they stand. It must seem such a massive task, that it's easier to leave things as they are I guess.
Politicians need to get behind this issue, and talk honestly about it. Maybe they're just too frightened some folks will screech, 'we don't want us no socialist medicine!!!!' If they do, then the politicians have no one to blame but themselves.
After all, they're the ones who have been frightening the people forever. If it's not the commies, it's socialist medicine........
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