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really? if they were "staunch" abolitionists from the outset why didn't they put it in the constitution? or mention it in any documents?......try again.
Not gonna argue long with you but JOHN ADAMS, founding father, 2nd President of the United States... DID NOT OWN SLAVES.. he was against ANTI SLAVERY, period... he was not alone.. the reason they did not put it in constitution was because they bigger fish to fry.. They knew they would never get the Border and Southern States to adopt a constitution that outlawed slavery... They kicked the can down the road, so to speak. SO in light of that, you can almost blame the Civil War on the founding fathers!
Although it is True, many founding fathers did own slaves including George Washington and THomas Jefferson but to say the ALL owned slaves is just not true..
Don't mix your opinions with historical facts and don't get personal here and suggesting that I don't view blacks as equals. Don't get emotional when you debate history.
The Majority of the Founding Fathers never said slavery was a problem, most of them owned slaves (2/3) !!!
Washington, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Charles Carrol, Samuel Chase, Patrick Henry, John Jay, Richard Henry Lee, Charles Pickney, Benjamin Rush, Edward Rutledge, Button Gwinnett owned slaves........1/3 of the founding fathers didn't own slaves: John Adams, Samuel Adams, Oliver Ellsworth, Alexander Hamilton, Robert Paine, Thomas Paine, Roger Sherman.
before the Civil War, the federal government was in debt. That's the reason Lincoln didn't want to let go of the South. He needed the taxes from the South to pay the debt and expenses and to transform the North into an industrial economy, that cost money.......That's the reason he didn't care and didn't want and didn't have the will to abolish slavery and supported the Corwin Amendment as long that the South return to the Union and pay their taxes.
Does any of this refute that slavery was a major part of the Confederate cause?
Wow. Really. A lot of the civil rights monuments started going up when the civil rights movement started. The flag over the South Carolina State House was raised around this time directly because of the civil rights moment. I'm pretty sure a lot of African Americans had issues with the monuments and flags going up. But they didn't have nearly the clout they have today and were trying really hard not to get killed in the streets due to demanding more freedom and rights.
I think you made a typo when you said civil rights monuments. I think you meant civil war monuments. Alot of Confederate monuments went up right after Plessy v Ferguson. Another major spike was during the Civil Rights movement. The Confederate flag was picked as a symbol of resistance against the Civil Rights movement.
I will leave a closing statement. A few years ago I watched a video YouTube about Romania, particularly its food traditions. A farmer said "under Ceausescu (the Communist dictator), people whispered about having to stand in line for bread for fear of the authorities hearing. Now, I can shout about my disappointment". Your last statement is what influenced my closing statement. As time went, more Black people shouted about their discontent.
I don't think it comes as a surprise that African Americans do not view the Confederate States of America in a positive light.
I think this is a powerful thread because it illustrates what happened shortly after the American Civil War, & after President Lincoln's assassination. It's how the 'Lost Cause' mythologies came to be foisted upon the United States of America.
Some folks disregard dismiss deny what the CSA stood for before the War & then (blissfully?) glom onto only what was said afterwards. In this sense, the CSA actually won the War, however not on the battlefield. The CSA fought to protect, preserve & expand their 'peculiar' institution & their 'way of life' of white supremacy. This is their heritage. It wasn't about hatred, it was about protecting, preserving & expanding their view that white folks were superior to black folks. It wasn't that black people were different than white people ... they were less than. This is the heritage they wanted everyone to accept. Why was the issue of returning enslaved people to their rightful 'owners' so contentious? The state of VA sued the state of NY over this issue. The CSA could not, or would not, be appeased & so there was War. They still couldn't be appeased after the war, & so went ahead to reinstate the Black Codes, Jim Crow era laws, & resisted the Civil Rights Movement of the 50s, 60s & so on ... . The American Civil War.
It's still being fought.
You're right to refer to the 'gaslighting' & 'crazy making' when it comes to expecting American folks to view the whitewashed history as having much or anything to do with the realities. African Americans, both then & now, are unrealistically expected to view these realities from the 'other' perspective when it was surely not healthy for them to do so back then. Not any more healthy would it be to do so in the present day.
Great summary of the reality of the situation. Thanks for posting this so concisely.
Not gonna argue long with you but JOHN ADAMS, founding father, 2nd President of the United States... DID NOT OWN SLAVES.. he was against ANTI SLAVERY, period... he was not alone.. the reason they did not put it in constitution was because they bigger fish to fry.. They knew they would never get the Border and Southern States to adopt a constitution that outlawed slavery... They kicked the can down the road, so to speak. SO in light of that, you can almost blame the Civil War on the founding fathers!
Although it is True, many founding fathers did own slaves including George Washington and THomas Jefferson but to say the ALL owned slaves is just not true..
Well don't argue and stop making $hiat up....the reason the founding fathers didn't outlaw slavery in the constitution because 2/3 of them, the MAJORITY Owned slaves including our 1st President and the U.S. government was dependent of the revenues of slavery especially after the Revolution War when the new Republic was broke and in debt. I never said all of them owned slaves.
Even in the North it didn't have the votes to outlaw slavery. That's the reason the North passed the Corwin Amendment in 1861. It was an amendment to put in black and white and bold in the U.S. Constitution that slavery was a state right and that congress could never interfere with the states that practiced slavery. Lincoln supporting the amendment and it passed with a majority in the North only since the South didn't vote because they already left and declared their independence. If the South would had return it would have been in the constitution but they refused to return for many reasons that had to do about taxes and control of their economy and resources. So that kills your opinion.
2/3 of the founding fathers owned slaves. Many Presidents owned slaves from Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, Taylor, Andrew Johnson and Grant but your counter argument to that is Adams didn't own slaves? LOL....OK.
Well don't argue and stop making $hiat up....the reason the founding fathers didn't outlaw slavery in the constitution because 2/3 of them, the MAJORITY Owned slaves including our 1st President and the U.S. government was dependent of the revenues of slavery especially after the Revolution War when the new Republic was broke and in debt. I never said all of them owned slaves.
Even in the North it didn't have the votes to outlaw slavery. That's the reason the North passed the Corwin Amendment in 1861. It was an amendment to put in black and white and bold in the U.S. Constitution that slavery was a state right and that congress could never interfere with the states that practiced slavery. Lincoln supporting the amendment and it passed with a majority in the North only since the South didn't vote because they already left and declared their independence. If the South would had return it would have been in the constitution but they refused to return for many reasons that had to do about taxes and control of their economy and resources. So that kills your opinion.
2/3 of the founding fathers owned slaves. Many Presidents owned slaves from Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, Taylor, Andrew Johnson and Grant but your counter argument to that is Adams didn't own slaves? LOL....OK.
None of that excuses the mythology or actions of displaying Confederate symbols, monuments or flags today, given its association with subjugating a whole class and community of people for generations.
Does any of this refute that slavery was a major part of the Confederate cause?
NO!....Because the North and Lincoln had no intentions of abolishing slavery in the South. They didn't have the votes (in the North alone, they didn't have the votes, forget the whole nation) they didn't have the constitutional powers or the will. Lincoln said it many times.
You keep ignoring the Corwin Amendment. It was made up by congressmen from the North and had the support of Lincoln and it passed with the a majority in the North. It states in black and white and in bold:
Quote:
No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.
So if slavery was a major part of the confederate cause, why didn't they return to the Union in 1861 to vote on the Corwin Amendment and make it into law? ........because it was about taxes and who control the economy in the South. It was about who control the revenues from slavery in the South and the resources and lands in the South............it was all about $$$$$ and control, the real reason all wars are fought.
None of that excuses the mythology or actions of displaying Confederate symbols, monuments or flags today, given its association with subjugating a whole class and community of people for generations.
your opinion....it's a battle flag in one of the bloodiest wars in our history in which 1 side viewed it as a war of aggression and invasion to their lands.
European and Latinos countries have battle flags from their history and heritage.....No different here. The difference is that only in the U.S. some people have the white guilt or slavery guilt and are sensitive about it and find any excuse to be offended by anything while the rest of the world has moved on and are not a bunch of snowflakes about battle flags in their history and heritage.
You discount this claim but many blacks ARE brainwashed by the liberal media into believing the Confederate flag is racist, just like they are brainwashed into believing Trump is racist. CNN would run article that state "a symbol of racism" as if its a fact. I personally do believe in a Southern pride and American nationalism that transcends race. The Democrats use race to get many middle class blacks to vote against their economic and religious self interest. Most blacks in the South are as pro-life as whites but they vote for the party of abortion, for example.
Well, someone is brainwashed
You know the confederate flag mostly disappeared for about 100 years. Just coincidentally, it was resurrected by the Dixiecrats just after WW2 when they seceded (there's that word again) from the rest of the Democratic Party as it started to embrace civil rights reform. As the Civil Rights Movement grew, the use of the confederate flag as a symbol of opposition to freedom and full rights for African Americans grew right along side.
it was all about $$$$$ and control, the real reason all wars are fought.
Well, sure it was about money - from the Slaves. What you need to do is read the words of the Confederates themselves......they seem to disagree with you!
MS.
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization."
LA.
"The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery."
TX
".in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states...."
"Southern slaveholders believed that African slavery was one of the great organizing institutions in world history, superior to the “free society” of the North"
It's totally fantastic that views like yours exist...and not only that, but that you refuse to take in any new information...no matter how clear (can't get much more clear than declarations by the Political class of the states involved).
Please - stop looking like a fool. Take some time and read stuff other than the rewritten history you are quoting. Please?
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