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And I agree with you on that. What I'm talking is that this is a question that is rarely asked. A majority of African-Americans are southerners, and yet, a majority of African-Americans don't have a positive view of the Confederate flag. And there are individuals who either ignore this fact, or when faced with the fact, will say things like "you need a history lesson" or "the north didn't care about you" or "you're brainwashed by the left". Just gaslighting tactics to make it seem like Black people must somehow be stupid for not liking the Confederate flag. Many people don't ever consider WHY the Confederate flag isn't viewed in a positive light among African-Americans, despite a majority of them being southerners and/or having southern roots.
I'm a little confused by this thread.
I would be astounded to learn that African-Americans view the Confederate flag as anything other than a harsh reminder of a War that was fought, at least in part, as an effort to keep them enslaved. That would have to be a slap in the face every single time it is displayed in public.
Does someone actually believe that African-Americans have come to tolerate the Confederate flag? Much less celebrate it?
These "facts" have been addressed for MANY years in many threads here. Try as you might, this "factoid" is not relevant....if it were you'd have to explain why LBJ was, by far, the most influential person in the last century in terms of writing Civil Rights and Voting rights into American Law.
This "talking point" only proves the lack of education of anyone who spews it.
Not any more than you would have to explain why Abraham Lincoln was by far the most influential person regarding slavery.
I won't align myself with the Democrat party. How could one align themselves with a party that is a big representation of slavery just like the Confederate flag? No other party was flying that flag during the civil war.
I would be astounded to learn that African-Americans view the Confederate flag as anything other than a harsh reminder of a War that was fought, at least in part, as an effort to keep them enslaved. That would have to be a slap in the face every single time it is displayed in public.
The War of Southern Treason was an exercise in cutting off one's nose to spite their face. An idiotic idea in the first place... AND for the worst cause imaginable. It's no wonder their descendants are almost universally Trumpkins.
But William Tecumseh Sherman said it better than I ever could:
Quote:
You, you the people of the South, believe there can be such a thing as peaceable secession. You don't know what you are doing. I know there can be no such thing. ... If you will have it, the North must fight you for its own preservation. Yes, South Carolina has by this act precipitated war. ... This country will be drenched in blood. God only knows how it will end. Perhaps the liberties of the whole country, of every section and every man will be destroyed, and yet you know that within the Union no man's liberty or property in all the South is endangered. ... Oh, it is all folly, madness, a crime against civilization. ... You people speak so lightly of war. You don't know what you're talking about. War is a terrible thing. I know you are a brave, fighting people, but for every day of actual fighting, there are months of marching, exposure and suffering. More men die in war from sickness than are killed in battle. At best war is a frightful loss of life and property, and worse still is the demoralization of the people. ...
"You mistake, too, the people of the North. They are a peaceable people, but an earnest people and will fight too, and they are not going to let this country be destroyed without a mighty effort to save it.
"Besides, where are your men and appliances of war to contend against them? The Northern people not only greatly outnumber the whites at the South, but they are a mechanical people with manufactures of every kind, while you are only agriculturists--a sparse population covering a large extent of territory, and in all history no nation of mere agriculturists ever made successful war against a nation of mechanics. ...
"The North can make a steam-engine, locomotive or railway car; hardly a yard of cloth or shoes can you make. You are rushing into war with one of the most powerful, ingeniously mechanical and determined people on earth--right at your doors. You are bound to fail. Only in your spirit and determination are you prepared for war. In all els eyou are totally unprepared, with a bad cause to start with.
"At first you will make headway, but as your limited resources begin to fail, and shut out from the markets of Europe by blockade as you will be, your cause will begin to wane. ... if your people would but stop and think, they must see that in the end you will surely fail.
You people were warned. And you got off easy. Every Confederate officer should have been hanged.
Most of us that are discussing the Confederate flag are very aware of the role of Spanish and Portuguese slave traders. However, it has very little to do with the topic we are discussing. What matters is what happened right here in the USA. I'm very aware that more slaves went to Mexico than the USA. More slaves went to Brazil than the USA. However, what matters most for this topic is what happened RIGHT HERE ON U.S. SOIL. What matters most is why the Confederates wanted secession so badly. Other countries let go of slavery peacefully. The USA didn't. Why? One region wanted to keep slavery bad enough to break away from the USA. Said region was willing to fire up its own country for said purpose. This didn't happen in Cuba and Brazil. People were willing to let it go. The Confederate cause, however, was explicitly clear about wanting to continue slavery within its borders. Articles of Secession, the Confederate Constitution, go look it up.
again, that is not why the war was fought. You keep ignoring facts. Lincoln and the North didn't wage war to end slavery. He said it many times and just look up the Corwin Amendment but you keep repeating the ignorance. Lincoln and the North were OK that slavery was kept as long that they control the revenues and resources and the South pays their taxes.
Slavery lasted a lot longer in Brazil and Cuba and Puerto Rico than the U.S.
The U.S. went to war for revenues and resources again, it's call the American/Spanish war and the American/Mexican war......nobody was willing to go to war for black slaves but they were willing to go to war for revenues, land and resources and that's the history of every war.
Can you please tell me. What is the difference between a White-Supremacist and a White-Nationalist? What do racists actually want?
Not much. Neither are rooted in common sense, reality or anything else definable.
If people really knew what these terms meant they wouldn't ID as such.
A White Supremacist would be most like "extended" Nazi Germany.....having some false ideals of "racially pure Nordic Stock"...which, of course, was a complete falsehood being as these "White Supermen" all came from Russia (and Germans thought Russians, their own ancestors, were sub-humans)........
In the context used today it means "White Europeans..especially those of the more northern Euro countries".
A White Nationalist would be more about the particular Nation they currently lived in and trying to wall that off from the rest of the world in the false assumption that this would be a positive thing. Poland and modern Day Hungary fit this with their current governments.
Racist just want to think they are better than others...even if they are not. Most of them are actually not even up to par, so they can't stand upon their own accomplishments and therefore use the ID of others (Hey, I'm white like Thomas Edison) and think that is a badge of honor.
They often wish to maintain the status quo which includes sitting around with their families and pals and putting down those with a different birthright than they have.
Generalizations...of course. I admit that. But we are talking in general terms here. A skinhead is a white supremisits (to a skin head, even Italians are not white...let alone Jews). A white Trumpie living in a bubble of whiteness (rural PA, etc.) might be a White Nationalist, especially if they rant about Globalism.
But I think both overlap by quite a bit.
I am white but neither a Nationalist nor a Supremisist. Being of Italian and Jewish stock we tend to feel those horrible (to racists) emotions of empathy and compassion. Instead of trying to reach for something that never was, we read history so we can learn to put it in context.
There ARE good reasons for all the angst among the racists mentioned above. But it is misplaced...that is, it was Wall Street and London and predatory capitalism that dumped on them...NOT other poor folks like themselves.
William Tecumseh Sherman said it better than I ever could
Was Sherman a good man? Didn't Sherman deserved to be hanged? Didn't Sherman commit countless War-crimes? And please tell me, what did Sherman think of the Native-Americans? What did he do to them?
Was Sherman a good man? Didn't Sherman deserved to be hanged? Didn't Sherman commit countless War-crimes? And please tell me, what did Sherman think of the Native-Americans? What did he do to them?
I don't care about *any* of that. Why is it that you Southern Traitors can never discuss an issue directly? You always twist and dodge with your Whattaboutisms.
You were warned. Everything Sherman told your treasonous forefathers was right, and plain as day.
Don't write checks your Southern ****-hole can't cash.
The War of Southern Treason was an exercise in cutting off one's nose to spite their face. An idiotic idea in the first place... AND for the worst cause imaginable. It's no wonder their descendants are almost universally Trumpkins.
But William Tecumseh Sherman said it better than I ever could:
You people were warned. And you got off easy. Every Confederate officer should have been hanged.
That quote is hard to find but when I first came upon it I was amazed.....he had it so perfectly stated. You can't fix stupid and you can't fix inbred violence. I recently read a book which was set in the 1990's and early 2000's about people living in a certain area and these folks have no such things as "forgive and forget". EVERY slight or perceived slight must be answered with violence.
There is another hard-to-find Sherman Quote where he says that only by killing every (male) Rebel will the question be settled...he didn't want to, but he realized the type of people they were and foresaw that it would still be hurting out country NOW (as it is).
Sherman was right - but both he and Lincoln knew that this was not going to happen. Genocide was not in their vocab and both were very liberal men. Sherman killed almost no one considering the size and scope of the campaign.
To be clear - violence is certainly not limited to any ethnicity. But most have found a way to temper it down and get back with the program when it proves to be fruitless. And the lost cause is certainly fruitless.
Sherman was right - but both he and Lincoln knew that this was not going to happen. Genocide was not in their vocab and both were very liberal men. Sherman killed almost no one considering the size and scope of the campaign.
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