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Anyone who is a crime victim today, especially a white victim of a black person, they will find them and punish them and the victims will be eligible for programs that will assist them.
We are speaking of history here. The specific terrorism and oppression inflicted upon black people in Chicago over the 20th century is one of the reasons as well for Chicago's problem with crime if you want to go there. Martin Luther King Jr., himself said white Chicagoans were more racist and scary than white Mississippians.
ETA: and whites in Chicago have not endured systematic oppression for over 100 years.....so no they do not deserve reparations.
YOU went from discussing reparations for DoS to include those who suffered violence at the hands of white people in the '60's.
As for finding the perps - you're being naive. They are not finding them. There are too many of them to find and there are mobs of hundreds of them.
Stick to the DoS discussion and leave those who suffered violence out of it for the sake of your argument.
I'll note I agree on the bold. I also don't think reparations will ever happen. I honestly would rather create a nationwide community group that is founded and lead by black people that takes care of our own and doesn't involve any sort of government program at all. so a non-profit means? Interesting. Not a bad idea. Where would the donations come from?
YOU went from discussing reparations for DoS to include those who suffered violence at the hands of white people in the '60's.
As for finding the perps - you're being naive. They are not finding them. There are too many of them to find and there are mobs of hundreds of them.
Stick to the DoS discussion and leave those who suffered violence out of it for the sake of your argument.
That's because, as I noted, reparations is not just about slavery IMO. I was very specific on the fact that the period of 1878-1980 was more devastating of a period for African Americans than slavery and that if that period had not been overtly oppressive and an era of terrorism inflicted upon blacks in this nation that we would be better off today regardless of slavery.
I've also said this many times on the forum.
Will be honest in that (as I've also stated before) it seems you are getting offended at the idea of reparations for the 20th century treatment of the black demographic. Defensive tactics like saying "well whites are victims of crimes in Chicago - they deserve reparations" is kind of silly to me and pretty childish POV from an historical perspective. Especially considering, as I noted, that crime in Chicago is heavily black criminals against black victims and that Chicago itself has a VERY racist past. Crime was way worse in Chicago between the 1970s and 1990s. Also Chicago has victims assistance programs, similar to the one I mentioned for Alabama. Alabama purposefully didn't backdate their program to the 1960s because they didn't want to cover black victims of racial attacks/violence. Birmingham where the woman who is still alive lives, it is estimated that hundreds of black homes were the victims of racial attacks that were allowed to occur by the local government. Similar situations occurred to black people all over the country where the law did not protect or seek recompense for black victims, this has never been the case systematically for whites in this country or Chicago across every income/class demographic like it was for black people nationwide in the 20th century. So your comment just was pulling at straws to me and you seemed defensive over something that you have no need to be offended about. Also it is very played out all the white people who bring up Chicago like it is the worst place on earth and act like black people are going around mobbing white people and your neighborhoods when nothing like that is happening there. My husband is from Chicago. I go there monthly. I don't even see white people in my in-laws neighborhoods. Chicago is heavily segregated. You probably live in the burbs too so don't really know what goes on in the city itself other than what the news tells you that you believe.
I know you are aware of the racist history of the City of Chicago as well as I remember you posting about it before as well as other Chicagoland posters who have not identified as black. It is not a secret to you all so you bringing that up was just childish to me and reeked of defensiveness.
Reparations IMO should not be focused on slavery. I agree probably with you and others who say "slavery was too long ago." ITA with that. But 1900-1980 was not too long ago. I personally know people who they or their parents were victims of racial violence during the 1940s-1960s who are still alive. I personally know quite a few people whose land was stolen from them by white people in the 1950s due to said white people having friends in local or state government and said white people felt that black families should not have property/land so they took it. Most Americans are not aware of how after Reconstruction "white supremacy" reigned supreme in many parts of this country (not just the south) and that it was not the "place" of blacks to be "better" than whites and whites made sure they were not to any wide degree - that was the systematic oppression and terrorism that black people should focus on for reparations IMO. The focus on slavery detracts from the systematic oppression endured by descendants of slaves.
And if you can tell me what to "stick" to, then I can tell you to stop getting offended by conversations that make you uncomfortable. Just because you choose to ignore what I wrote and try to change the subject doesn't mean you have any sort of authority or knowledge over the topics at hand. Like you, I can speak on whatever I would like. It is always interesting to me that many whites get very uncomfortable speaking of history. It seems you get more offended when we speak of recent history. Maybe it is because you know what I stated is true and that you were alive and ignored all those things that went on. Not sure how old you are, but I do know that most whites were not active participants in racial violence, oppression, and terrorism against black people in the 20th century; however, most were willing to overlook it and ignore black people being killed and having their property stolen or not having opportunities to improve our families. If you are going to participate in a conversation regarding "reparations" you have to acknowledge the FACT that the racial oppression in the 20th century is the primary factor for the socio-economic condition of black people today, not slavery. A large amount of people of the world have been slaves, but once left to grow holistically they bettered themselves. Blacks were heavily enslaved for 300 years, then for another 102 years were prevented from growing socio-economically. Only in the past 40 years have we been able to holistically grow but we still have to contend and deal with the legacy of that 102 years of oppression from 1878-1980.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 04-26-2019 at 09:03 AM..
so a non-profit means? Interesting. Not a bad idea. Where would the donations come from?
The Russian troll theory wouldn’t surprise me.
On the blue - I think we could crowdsource a non-profit or social purpose corporation ourselves. Contrary to what many ADOS people push, black people have a lot of money in America via our income. If we had a campaign where everyone donated $5 a month to start a non-profit/social corporation with goals focused on improving our demographic via specific initiatives (that must be means tested and verifiable) then we could easily raise a billion dollars in a year's time. If only 20 million of the 40 million black people in this country donated $5 a month for a year we would have $1,200,000,000.00 (1.2 billion). I'd give more than $5 a month and I know many of us could/would. We pay more for Netflix or Apple Music.
Reparations IMO should not be focused on slavery. I agree probably with you and others who say "slavery was too long ago." ITA with that. But 1900-1980 was not too long ago. I personally know people who they or their parents were victims of racial violence during the 1940s-1960s who are still alive. I personally know quite a few people whose land was stolen from them by white people in the 1950s due to said white people having friends in local or state government and said white people felt that black families should not have property/land so they took it. Most Americans are not aware of how after Reconstruction "white supremacy" reigned supreme in many parts of this country (not just the south) and that it was not the "place" of blacks to be "better" than whites and whites made sure they were not to any wide degree - that was the systematic oppression and terrorism that black people should focus on for reparations IMO. The focus on slavery detracts from the systematic oppression endured by descendants of slaves.
Reparations were given to Japanese Americans who were forced from their homes, often losing businesses and other property, into interment camps during WWII. Of course that was a relatively token amount to the survivors decades afterwards.
Germany also gave reparations to Israel for decades.
So there is a precedent - it's just that a whole lot of white people are pretty uncomfortable talking about it.
At one time. Black Americans, Caribbeans, Afro Latinos and Africans got along real well. The problem is economic resources and tools that are available. The tools that were supposed to uplift African Americans which was given to by the government in the 1960s was easily used by black immigrant and their descendants to exit poverty within one generation or less. For reparations for example. It should not be monetary give backs, but to allow black Americans only low tax rate on homes which that tax rate are frozen, no high interest rates on college loans. Every Civil Service exam black Americans receive an automatic 10 points. SAT exam for example, if one is an African American receives 150 points for writing, 150 points for math and 100 points for reading. A total of 500 points.
Blacks on a global level (whether African, African American, or Caribbean) are looked at as a group, as the least smart. On the world stage, it is the US, Asian countries, European countries, and then South American countries when it comes to technology, trade, millionaires/CEOs and general advancement. Black countries (African and Caribbean) don’t play a big role on the global stage. That is probably why you also see a lot of fighting between the different types of blacks in the US because nobody wants to be the “lowest.”
Among whites (I am Polish descent), it is a somewhat different phenomenon, in that after 2/3rd generation, most of us (Irish, Italian, Polish, Greek, Russian, etc) blend into “American White.” There is not really that animosity between us.
Again, it is just my theory, but I believe why you see the animosity with blacks is because no group wants to be at the very bottom. It’s also why Latinos tend to separate from other blacks, even Caribbeans. I have heard Dominicans hate Haitians, and Dominicans seem to identify more as “Hispanic” since it is a level above Black.
Reparations were given to Japanese Americans who were forced from their homes, often losing businesses and other property, into interment camps during WWII. Of course that was a relatively token amount to the survivors decades afterwards.
Germany also gave reparations to Israel for decades.
So there is a precedent - it's just that a whole lot of white people are pretty uncomfortable talking about it.
Right, but we are too far gone for it to work realistically now. I am white and I absolutely think there should have been reparations. But at this point it would be too complicated. There has been so much cultural mixing that how would it work? Would mix black and white (or mixed black and other races) get reparations? What if you are not black American (or are mixed black American and black African/Caribbean)? Is it if you have any black blood? Japanese were homogeneous at the time, so giving reparations was easy. Israelis are ethnically-identifiable (you could look at birth records or citizenship). Again, this is a weak attempt to push the reparations argument.
It is much more complicated in this time period to give reparations to blacks. If we are talking about right after slavery or even extending into the early 20th century, then yes, I absolutely agree that there should have been reparations. The programs and opportunities available now to African Americans who take advantage of them is the best we can do at this point.
I see. A movement in intersectional victimhood and in fighting among the "victims", with multiple hands out.
I actually dont have a problem with that, and those scrambling to get "paid".
I am more interested in whom is expected to do the paying.
White people I would imagine.
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