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Looking back in time...Barisma was known as a corrupt company. Multiple investigations around the world were turning towards them. Great Britain had seized their assets. The company owner left the country. About that time Obama's VP, Joe Biden becomes the "point man" on Ukraine policy. And shortly after, his son, recently kicked out of the Navy for drug use, in trouble for not paying his divorce settlement, and a known customer of prostitutes gets a million dollar a year job with Barisma. All with zero experience in the oil and gas industry. Ukraine is investigating Burisma....and Joe, in his own words (see video in link above) brag of blackmailing them with US taxpayer dollars into firing the prosecutor in charge of investigation into Barisma. And (Son of a B!) they fire the prosecutor.
The story the Dems like to tell is that the prosecutor Shokin wasn't "tough enough" on corruption and that is why Biden blackmailed Ukrainian leadership into firing him. My question-once he was fired-who was the tough, honest prosecutor that replaced him, what charges were brought against Barisma and who was sent to prison for corruption? I have done some degree of searching and (son of a B) haven't found a definitive answer. All I end up with is sites trying to deflect from Biden's actions.
No Burisma was not known as a corrupt company.
They were investigating one shareholder -- and that investigation had ended before Biden was asked ot sit on the board.
In fact the reason they asked Biden to sit on the board was to help 'clean up their image'.
It isn't only the Dems that say Shokin wasn't tough enough. There are bi-partisan letters urging the US govt. to take action against Shokin.
Other countries, global communities were all in on the 'deal'.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WC1LV A Ukrainian investigation of gas company Burisma is focused solely on activity that took place before Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, was hired to sit on its board, Ukraine’s anti-corruption investigation agency said.
To claim there is something -- when there is nothing is wishing, hoping, praying, creating, diverting...but it doesn't make it trut.
In April 2014, the Serious Fraud Office froze approximately $23 million belonging to companies controlled by Zlochevsky.[17] At the end of 2014, Zlochevsky fled Ukraine amid allegations of unlawful self enrichment and legalization of funds (Article 368-2, Criminal Code of Ukraine) during his tenure in public office.[18] In January 2015, Prosecutor General Vitaly Yarema announced that Zlochevsky had been put on the wanted list for alleged financial corruption.[19] At the end of January 2015, the Central Criminal Court in London released the $23 million that were blocked on accounts of Zlochevsky due to inadequate evidence.[18] In June 2018, the Serious Fraud Office stated that the case was closed.[20]
Zlochevsky returned to Ukraine in February 2018 after investigations into his Burisma Holdings had been completed in December 2017 with no charges filed against him.[21][22]
On 18 April 2018, an alleged recording of part of a conversation between President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko and fugitive Ukrainian lawmaker Oleksandr Onyshchenko was released by Onyshchenko which implicated Zlochevsky in graft.[3][23][24]
On 15 June 2018, after the Solomyansky District Court in Kyiv had annulled the ruling of the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office (SAP) to close a criminal proceeding against him in 2017, Zlochevsky was accused of having illegally issued, while he was Ecology Minister in 2010–2012, oil and gas licenses to the companies that belonged to him.[25] According to Ukrainian authorities Zlochevsky is suspected of "theft of government funds on an especially large scale".[26] Authorities said the criminal investigation on suspicion of embezzlement is currently on hold because Zlochevsky whereabouts cannot presently be determined.[27] As of 2019, Zlochevsky is reported to live in Monaco.[28]
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1WC1LV A Ukrainian investigation of gas company Burisma is focused solely on activity that took place before Hunter Biden, son of former U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, was hired to sit on its board, Ukraine’s anti-corruption investigation agency said.
To claim there is something -- when there is nothing is wishing, hoping, praying, creating, diverting...but it doesn't make it trut.
"Happened before Hunter worked there" is perhaps the most flacid of all the excuses Dems come up with. Let's say a company commits an illegal act. They (as Burisma was) ends up under investigation by the local, city prosecutor, some time of course after it happened. The company finds out and makes offers the prosecutor's son (who just happens to be a cocaine user, frequent employer of prostitutes and is in trouble for not paying his wife in his divorce settlement-and with no relevant experience) a job with a 1 million dollar a year salary. The local prosecutor then drops the case. Would you REALLY make the case that the hiring of the son and the dropping of the case had no possible connection?
Nobody that I know of is saying Hunter is responsible for the corruption at Burisma. The point is that he was hired by them and working for them while his father was the US "point man" on Ukraine-and that he (Joe) did indeed blackmail Ukraine into firing the prosecutor investigating Burisma. We have Joe on take bragging about it. Which DID occur while Hunter was working there.
Now-if Ukraine did as Biden implied and replaced Shokin with a prosecutor that actually investigated Burisma, made arrests and put the guilty parties in prison, neither Trump nor anyone else could make a case. However-they didn't. They put someone in that position that had already served time for corruption, that didn't even have a law degree, and never put a sole in prison. Now-at the least-that LOOKS like corruption and influence peddling. Well, to anyone not completely biased and partisian.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 02-07-2020 at 11:47 AM..
"Happened before Hunter worked there" is perhaps the most flacid of all the excuses Dems come up with. Let's say a company commits an illegal act. They (as Burisma was) is under investigation by the local, city prosecutor. The company finds out and makes offers the prosecutor's son (who just happens to be a cocaine user, frequent employer of prostitutes and is in trouble for not paying his wife in his divorce settlement). The local prosecutor then drops the case. Would you REALLY make the case that the hiring of the son and the dropping of the case had no possible connection?
Nobody that I know of is saying Hunter is responsible for the corruption at Burisma. The point is that he was hired by them and working for them while his father was the US "point man" on Ukraine-and that he did indeed blackmail Ukraine into firing the prosecutor investigating Burisma.
Now-if Ukraine did as Biden implied and replaced Shokin with a prosecutor that actually investigated Burisma, made arrests and put the guilty parties in prison, neither Trump nor anyone else could make a case. However-they didn't. They put someone in that position that had already served time for corruption, that didn't even have a law degree, and never put a sole in prison. Now-at the least-that LOOKS like corruption and influence peddling. Well, to anyone not completely biased and partisian.
Without even getting into rebutting your fast-and-loose grasp on the facts, none of what you wrote changes that Biden was acting at the direction of the State Department and promoting formal US policy when he pushed to remove Shokin and, thus, was not acting corruptly in his own self-interest.
They have to prove that Trump was right about something for once. Trump has piled on so many lies, his defenders will do anything to prove a Trump lie is a fact.
He didn't blackmail Ukraine and as usual you left out all the details on the Shokin firing, are you going tell the full story or just Trumps version.
They always go with Trump's version.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Congressional Republicans behaved like adults. But saying that Reoublicans didnt investigate isnt an excuse for Democrats who hold Congress now to not investigate, especially given the similarities between this and the Trump impeachment claims. And especially given the itch for Democrats to investigate Trumps for alleged wrongdoings long before he came into office (that Republicans didnt investigate Trump for those offenses when they held power certainly didnt stop Dems from investigating once they took power in that case). I bring up these points to call out Dem hypocrisy mainly. I'm not really interested in an investigation, though I do push back on claims that the allegations have been proven false " or otherwise discredited. But I'm also not in favor of the impeachment vote based in the evidence. And Trump, as the president, is in charge of US foreign policy, so if he wanted to look into what he saw as possible corruption, that is the US foreign policy. That career diplomats dont like that doesnt change a thing.
Republicans didn't investigate in 2015, 2016, 2017, or 2018.
Please stop trying to blame this on the democrats.
I am quite certain that democrats will be happy to continue the Ukraine investigation as they uncover more and more of Trump's corruption.
Shokin wasn't Burisma's nemesis either. If anything, he was the nemesis of anti-corruption efforts, which explains why anti-corruption NGOs like the World Bank and IMF wanted him turfed out and why they tried to get the EU and US to help.
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). I bring up these points to call out Dem hypocrisy mainly. I'm not really interested in an investigation, though I do push back on claims that the allegations have been proven false " or otherwise discredited. But I'm also not in favor of the impeachment vote based in the evidence. And Trump, as the president, is in charge of US foreign policy, so if he wanted to look into what he saw as possible corruption, that is the US foreign policy. That career diplomats dont like that doesnt change a thing.
