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It may be that many had a serious underlying condition. The problem is - you do too. Lots of people do. Maybe 150M.
That exposes an overarching problem: the more-healthy are subsidizing the less healthy. Sure, getting older isn't exactly a behavior-flaw, or the results of unfortunate decisions (if anything, it's the opposite). But even among the elderly, those in ill-health will fare much worse than those whose condition - for their age - is excellent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279
If you want to die soon, be an old man.
Working on it.
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Originally Posted by Aredhel
Yes. Isn't the goal to have as many people live long and reasonably healthy lives as possible?
The goal is to improve the aggregate quality of life, for as many people as possible, without having some perversely unjust (utilitarian) pitfall. When we have an imbalance - the interest of one group, dominates the interest of other groups - we have a problem, do we not?
Yes. Isn't the goal to have as many people live long and reasonably healthy lives as possible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant
The goal is to improve the aggregate quality of life, for as many people as possible, without having some perversely unjust (utilitarian) pitfall. When we have an imbalance - the interest of one group, dominates the interest of other groups - we have a problem, do we not?
A most excellent point.
As I've often pointed out, there is a healthcare mentality and the healthcare mentality in the United States is unique in the World. No other country has anything even remotely close.
And that mentality is top-down.
From the hospital administrators who fancy themselves as Roman Catholic Archbishops building hospitals as monuments to themselves to the doctors who take extra extraordinary measures regardless of cost, regardless of outcome and regardless of the impact on the patient's quality of life to Americans who go to the doctor to feel good, unlike the rest of the World where people go to the doctor to get better.
Dartmouth College publishes the Dartmouth Atlas which is cornucopia of healthcare studies:
For example, among the patients who indicated that they preferred to die at home, the majority — 55% — actually died in the hospital. The evidence therefore suggests that patients often prefer a more conservative pattern of end-of-life care than they actually receive — and that a patient’s wishes can be less influential than the practice patterns at the hospital where care is delivered.
We spend more in the last 6 months of person's life than most of their life. You have people in the last 30 days of their life seeing 10 doctors, and I don't mean seeing the doctor 10x, I mean seeing 10 different doctors as in 10 different specialty doctors.
Then you have the ass-clowns at the American Hospital Association lobbying State legislatures against advance directives and healthcare proxies.
I'm at the VA hospital in pre-op under IV sedation prior to surgery and here comes the doctor with the little pad for me to sign to authorize the surgery.
Where are the 2 witnesses and the notary public? There aren't any.
But if I want to authorize or refuse to authorize medical procedures in the future, I need 2 witnesses who are not related by blood, marriage or adoption and not a healthcare provider and a notary public to make it official.
And it's all for naught, because it is an unwritten policy in many hospitals and nursing homes to ignore advance directives, even going so far as tearing them out of the patient's file and throwing them away.
So there's an 89 year old woman who wants to die with dignity and has a DNR and advance directive, but the nursing home ignores and in the process of reviving her with CPR, the chest compressions broke three of her ribs.
Then she's in the hospital where she doesn't want to be and where they spend more money on her and she dies 4 days later anyway.
Yeah, the family sued the hospital and nursing home, but it goes to arbitration because the nursing homes compel it.
You can't bill Medicare/Medicaid if there's an advance directive, right?
False claims declaring that coronavirus has become the leading cause of death in the US have swirled as the US leads the world in coronavirus cases. Those claims are made by some experts comparing how many people die of coronavirus daily with the estimate of how many people may die daily on average of each leading cause of death, using CDC data.
"We have limited data on 2020 deaths by cause, and no final official numbers yet for 2019, but we do know by looking at the final death totals in 2018 for the two leading causes of death in the U.S., Heart Disease and Cancer, there is no way that at this point COVID-19 comes anywhere close to those totals," Lancashire said in the email.
He noted that between January and April in 2018, more than 234,000 people in the United States died of heart disease and nearly 199,000 died of cancer.
It may be that many had a serious underlying condition. The problem is - you do too. Lots of people do. Maybe 150M. That's because they consider high blood pressure a serious underlying condition. Diabetes. Others. Yes, of course, cancer too, COPD, genuinely serious conditions. Not a huge statistical change between cancer, diabetes, or high BP, though. So don't pretend High BP isn't serious. It is.
Since the longer you live, the more likely you are to have one of these conditions, I don't think this data is a surprise.
So - if you're between the ages of 50 -59 - your chance of Death is about 1%. Younger? Much, much lower, something like 0.2%, while if you're older...it's much more than 1%. Maybe 15% of you're over 80.
Another - much better way to look at this is - regardless of your age - if you catch this - you have an 85% chance of living. 99.8% if you're under 50. 500 people catch it, 1 dies. You're at a much higher risk from just about anything else. For an individual - it's a small chance - but for a population - that's 350,000 people. Way. Too. Many. (Again that's people under 50.)
All of this assumes that if you're in the approximately 15% who need hospitalization and in the approximately 4% who need ICU care, you're able to get it. If you're not because the hospitals are overrun, you have a MUCH higher chance of ending up in one of those refrigerated trucks.
New York City today has reported 3,778 additional deaths that have occurred since March 11 and have been classified as "probable," defined as follows: “decedent [...] had no known positive laboratory test for SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) but the death certificate lists as a cause of death “COVID-19” or an equivalent" [source]. We will add these to the New York State total as soon as it is determined whether the historical distribution can be obtained
This makes me suspicious of the numbers. Either we have a process or we don't. We can't just be "close enough". If that is the case I demand they add about 100K to the number of infected because that is "probably" the better number.
This makes me suspicious of the numbers. Either we have a process or we don't. We can't just be "close enough". If that is the case I demand they add about 100K to the number of infected because that is "probably" the better number.
At this point there will still be some presumed deaths from covid 19 that are diagnosed clinically.
There will be review of all these deaths over time by all sorts of agencies and interested parties. So more accurate numbers are bound to follow.
This makes me suspicious of the numbers. Either we have a process or we don't. We can't just be "close enough". If that is the case I demand they add about 100K to the number of infected because that is "probably" the better number.
1. You should ALWAYS be suspicious of the numbers
2. In general there is no well thought out process
3. Close enough is as close as we'll EVER get
4. 100K is probably tip of the iceberg. Like I've mentioned in other post, the numbers (esp positive infected) are highly unreliable to the point of being nearly meaningless (other than to push one narrative or another)
Good. This will open up their estates to their relatives.
Right now there are tons of elderly who have vast estates they plan to use to stuggle to stay alive. If they do early it will be an economic boom.
So old people should just get sick and die so the young'uns can benefit from the spoils? Wow.
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