A second wave will shut down the economy too (Iraq, dollar, politicians)

[danielj72]

Originally Posted by JaneMeyer

What a freaking idiotic thing to say. It's not a left right thing. You just have no regard for human life whatsover. It's pretty sick and disgusting. You act like nobody has died from this and it's all just made up. This is just blatatly disrespectful to those that have died. Coronavirus can infect anyone. Not just democrats. I know some republicans who have gotten it and one who died from it. I guess they didn't get the memo it's a democrat made up disease. It's this kind of blatant stupidity and disregard for human lives that got people into this mess and became a pandemic. Go ahead and have more disregard for people's lives and see how that works when you are struggling to breath and no hospital beds for you. It's this kind of stupidity and disregard for life that the death tolll is so high and we all have to stay home. You have no concept of public health at all it looks like. By not staying home and not wearing masks you are making other people sick and spreading your germs to others.

It seems you don't give a damn about anyone but yourself, especially those not wearing masks are just selfish and the reason we are in this mess. BTW I can say the same thing about an economic collapse. There is no economic collapse at all. It's all just made up in your head. I really don't know why you can't grasp the simple concept of looking out for others and not being selfish. It's really disgusting. You are basically one of those people that comes to work sick and coughs all over everyone. Oh but Covid 19 doesn't even exist. Just bury your head in the sand and don't care if you get others sick.

I never said the virus was fake. It is real and it is a bit nastier than a bad flu season. In 2018 70k died from flu? Where is your outrage for those victims? What I believe is phony is this manufactured crises. As Rahm Emmanuel said “never let a good crises go to waste”. Liberal media caused the hysteria and left wing governors shut down the economy. This is fact. No economic collapse? Half the country is unemployed and the government is printing trillions of dollars in a Hail Mary effort to save us from collapse. Why? So you can feel safe? We face nasty viruses all the time. Even during Spanish flu which was much much worse we did not commit economic suicide.

Also may I ask why all those outraged by people like me being critical of this overreaction seem to be the same ones who are constantly pushing the liberal agenda in the forums? Why are the political figures pushing shutdowns all left wing? Why? Maybe because this is the grand opportunity for leftists to see capitalism destroyed and replaced by socialism. When Americans have no jobs and food they will have no choice but to demand socialism. Of course this has nothing to do with the coincidence that it is generally far left liberals demanding endless lockdowns right? It is also liberals who constantly attack our personal liberties like freedom of speech or right to bear arms. Through the use of fear you have convinced many Americans to give up the most basic freedoms. It seems the groundwork is being laid for an authoritarian socialist state.

Whether or not I stay at home or wear a mask is no ones business. You have no right to shame me for not doing so. I am a free American and I could care less if your outraged by my not wearing of a mask. I have broken no laws. I know how it saddens you that this is not the Soviet Union but it is not. I am a free man and refuse to give up that freedom so you will feel safe. Benjamin Franklin said that “those who would trade liberty for safety and security deserve neither”. I stand by that belief. Any American who thinks like you should be ashamed and in my opinion does not deserve the great blessing of having been born here with the freedom we have. Leftists are a cancer upon this country. They are destroying everything we hold dear. This coronavirus panic is their “nuclear option” for bringing about the socialist dream. I will not be fooled by you people.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by oh come on!

be smart

stay at home.... for 5 years.

and rob a bank if you need money.


some of you people are naive.
Shutting down even longer is not going to prevent a 2nd wave.

This virus is already out there waiting for you.
In this game of hide and seek, you're not hiding for long.

So why is my governor constantly telling us to "limit activities and travel to stop the spread of the virus"? He repeats this about 5X in every press conference he does, plus "stop the spread" is plastered just about everywhere right now!

[JaneMeyer]

Originally Posted by danielj72

I never said the virus was fake. It is real and it is a bit nastier than a bad flu season. In 2018 70k died from flu? Where is your outrage for those victims? What I believe is phony is this manufactured crises. As Rahm Emmanuel said “never let a good crises go to waste”. Liberal media caused the hysteria and left wing governors shut down the economy. This is fact. No economic collapse? Half the country is unemployed and the government is printing trillions of dollars in a Hail Mary effort to save us from collapse. Why? So you can feel safe? We face nasty viruses all the time. Even during Spanish flu which was much much worse we did not commit economic suicide.

Also may I ask why all those outraged by people like me being critical of this overreaction seem to be the same ones who are constantly pushing the liberal agenda in the forums? Why are the political figures pushing shutdowns all left wing? Why? Maybe because this is the grand opportunity for leftists to see capitalism destroyed and replaced by socialism. When Americans have no jobs and food they will have no choice but to demand socialism. Of course this has nothing to do with the coincidence that it is generally far left liberals demanding endless lockdowns right? It is also liberals who constantly attack our personal liberties like freedom of speech or right to bear arms. Through the use of fear you have convinced many Americans to give up the most basic freedoms. It seems the groundwork is being laid for an authoritarian socialist state.

Whether or not I stay at home or wear a mask is no ones business. You have no right to shame me for not doing so. I am a free American and I could care less if your outraged by my not wearing of a mask. I have broken no laws. I know how it saddens you that this is not the Soviet Union but it is not. I am a free man and refuse to give up that freedom so you will feel safe. Benjamin Franklin said that “those who would trade liberty for safety and security deserve neither”. I stand by that belief. Any American who thinks like you should be ashamed and in my opinion does not deserve the great blessing of having been born here with the freedom we have. Leftists are a cancer upon this country. They are destroying everything we hold dear. This coronavirus panic is their “nuclear option” for bringing about the socialist dream. I will not be fooled by you people.

I don't see it as an over reaction. It could have been 2 million deaths had we not. It seems like it was a sensible thing to do. If we did it right, we'd all be back out and the economy can just bounce back when things go back to normal. I really don't get this need to put the economy over human lives. More death will destroy the economy too. You can wear a mask or not wear a mask, but you are being selfish by not wearing one. It isn't all just about you. It puts other lives at risk. And now we are just being stupid putting people back out there to get tattoos and haircuts.

[danielj72]

The 2 million number was never realistic. It has killed no where near those numbers in any country. Remember half of the globe is third world and has no means to conduct large scale lockdowns. We are hearing of nowhere that millions have died. Those numbers were inflated to scare people. It worked.

You never answered my question about why all the people advocating for strict lockdowns and enforced social distancing tend to be leftists. I have asked multi leftists this question and none will answer it. Will you not admit that you would like to see liberalism advanced by this crisis? If you admit it then you will be the first. Do you want to see Americans demand socialism because they are suffering from the economic collapse? Do you see it as an advantage in the election? Do you hope this brings about socialist policies such as universal basic income or single payer healthcare? Are you big enough to admit like Governor Newsom did that this is “a great opportunity for progressivism”?

[Ceece]

No, we'll accept whatever the death count is. We always do. THAT will be the "new normal" just like all the flu deaths and deaths by other means.

[yspobo]

Originally Posted by JaneMeyer

I don't see it as an over reaction. It could have been 2 million deaths had we not. It seems like it was a sensible thing to do. If we did it right, we'd all be back out and the economy can just bounce back when things go back to normal. I really don't get this need to put the economy over human lives. More death will destroy the economy too. You can wear a mask or not wear a mask, but you are being selfish by not wearing one. It isn't all just about you. It puts other lives at risk. And now we are just being stupid putting people back out there to get tattoos and haircuts.

Where are people going to get the money to buy food if the economy stays shut down? People are more likely to die if they go without eating than by getting a virus where most people don't even get symptoms.

[mathlete]

We've had zero waves here in Taiwan, zero lockdowns, zero shutdowns and, today, for the second day in a row, zero cases of coronavirus nationwide. It's been over a month since anyone here died of coronavirus.

On the other hand 95% of us willingly wear face masks -- which are in ample supply because the government made sure of that early on -- everywhere we go.

It seems like a small price to pay for normalcy and victory over the coronavirus.

[jacqueg]

Originally Posted by danielj72

The 2 million number was never realistic. It has killed no where near those numbers in any country. Remember half of the globe is third world and has no means to conduct large scale lockdowns. We are hearing of nowhere that millions have died. Those numbers were inflated to scare people. It worked.

You never answered my question about why all the people advocating for strict lockdowns and enforced social distancing tend to be leftists. I have asked multi leftists this question and none will answer it. Will you not admit that you would like to see liberalism advanced by this crisis? If you admit it then you will be the first. Do you want to see Americans demand socialism because they are suffering from the economic collapse? Do you see it as an advantage in the election? Do you hope this brings about socialist policies such as universal basic income or single payer healthcare? Are you big enough to admit like Governor Newsom did that this is “a great opportunity for progressivism”?

Personally, I'd like to know why the people who question science in general, and medical research in particular, tend to be Republicans. It seems absolutely nuts to me. What's the alternative to modern medical research? Shamans?

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by JaneMeyer

People we need to be smart about this. It's a pandemic and we need to shut the economy down right now in order for this virus to die down. Then we can start reopening things. Because if we reopen things too soon a second wave is going to start happening and then that will shut down the economy again so we need to do it right once. So we don't have to keep shutting down the economy. That is a smart thing to do but people are very anxious so they are suggesting stupid crap.

There would not be a "2nd wave" had we not cautiously pulled the band-aid off.
If that band-aid was ripped off, there would be no second wave, or a prolonged continuance.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by danielj72

In 2018 70k died from flu? Where is your outrage for those victims?

Were they setting up tents in Central Park to treat flu victims in 2018?

Were healthcare workers working 24/7 and stuck in the hospitals for fear of spreading influenza to their families and friends?

Provide a list of hospitals overwhelmed with flu victims between 1925 and 2019.

We'll wait...

Also, your data is just pain wrong.

CDC estimates of influenza deaths in 2018-2019 were 26,339 to 52,664, which is not the 70,000 you claim and the average is 34,157.

If perhaps you actually meant 2017-2018, you still fail.

CDC estimates deaths between 46,404 to 94,987 with an average of 61,099.

Note that in 2017-2018 they were not setting up tents outside of hospitals and using facilities like stadiums, sports arenas and convention centers to house the over-flow due to hospital over-crowding.

Also, not everyone died of influenza.

Many died of corona virus. Some died of parainfluenza, some from adenovirus and some from RSV.

Why doesn't the CDC list the actual cause of death instead of the generic "influenza?"

Because the CDC does not have that information and it is not worth the time or effort to get it.

All of those are Influenza-like Illnesses so it's sufficient to say flu and not corona virus or not RSV.

Even when a patient dies in hospital, the true cause of death is still not actually known in spite of the fact that all States require autopsies.

Why? Because the budgets of the 3,007 coroner's offices in the US are not infinite. They are very, very finite, and they are not equal. The budget for one office might be $37,000/year and for another $3.7 Million/year.

Coroners spend their money on crime victims, and people who died for other reasons and not on people who died of garden-variety illnesses.

For someone who died in hospital, the purpose of the autopsy is two-fold: 1) was the hospital negligent and 2) is an "angel of death" running around. That's it. And for that, they get a standard blood panel.

They don't yank lung tissue and run it under a scanning electron microscope, because most coroner's offices don't even have one, so they'd have to send it to a lab which costs a helluva lot of money and even if they did have one, they don't have the time to waste trying to figure out which one of the 5 virus -- corona, influenza, parainfluenza, adenovirus or RSV -- actually caused the pneumonia that led to the patient's death.

It's enough to say "flu" or "pneumonia" and leave it at that.