Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
Reputation: 9169
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach43ofus
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer
How is that nonsense when the 47% of people pay no taxes but rake in all the benefits including police protection?
Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220[/b]
It's nonsense because not everyone can earn the same amount of income from their labor, but everyone still deserves an equal amount of certain services, like police protection. The alternative would be tantamount to the rich using Pinkertons and Blackwater with the poor getting no police protection, just to use your example of police
1 poster mentions taxes...a 2nd poster mentions income. 2 different things, that are losely related in America.
Should gov't services be tied to income earned, or taxes paid? Why?
No, because then they might as well be private market, which leads to the problem in my example
The following is from the link you provided, stating that it was “to the research peer-reviewed professional journal article which includes a plethora of citations:”
Wouldn’t your simplistic faith-based free market fundamentalist philosophy force you to reject anything that would allow the growth of the welfare state?
Too late. We already have exponential growth of the welfare population because the poor are paid to breed via both public assistance benefits andrefundable tax credits. Hence, we have the following statistic noted by the US Census Bureau: Women on public assistance, as a group, have a birth rate 3 times higher than those not on public assistance.
It's Figure 7 in the report for those who have no idea what they're supposed to be looking at.
The poor's actual effective federal income tax rate goes as low as -15% (yes, that's negative), meaning that instead of paying any federal income tax or payroll tax, the Fed Gov actually pays them. The main culprits: refundable tax credits available only to the poor and middle class which thereby exacerbate the progressivity of the US federal tax structure.
I get sick sick sick of the word socialist thrown around...I'm on this earth 82 yrs and love all the social services I've used to get thru my 99% life, highways, protection, postal, social security, medicare and it goes on and on....
What is so wrong with helping the down and out and some in the 99%.....
Nothing. Anyone is free to voluntarily donate to that cause. As soon as taking from some by force to give to others is initiated, that's slavery, aka forcibly stripping some of the fruits of their labor to benefit those who haven't earned it.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,615,202 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Nothing. Anyone is free to voluntarily donate to that cause. As soon as taking from some by force to give to others is initiated, that's slavery, aka forcibly stripping some of the fruits of their labor to benefit those who haven't earned it.
I'm not in favor of even more taxation, but what you are saying does make sense. It explains why, California, which has a very progressive tax system compared to other states, is also one of the most unequal. I'm sure tax policy isn't the only reason, but it's definitely a contributing factor.
Too late. We already have exponential growth of the welfare population because the poor are paid to breed via both public assistance benefits andrefundable tax credits. Hence, we have the following statistic noted by the US Census Bureau: Women on public assistance, as a group, have a birth rate 3 times higher than those not on public assistance.
It's Figure 7 in the report for those who have no idea what they're supposed to be looking at.
The poor's actual effective federal income tax rate goes as low as -15% (yes, that's negative), meaning that instead of paying any federal income tax or payroll tax, the Fed Gov actually pays them. The main culprits: refundable tax credits available only to the poor and middle class which thereby exacerbate the progressivity of the US federal tax structure.
Rather than forcing folks down into your cramped & convoluted rabbit hole ad nauseum, consider some reality-based thoughtviews:
Does everyone have the same values? Yes, but libertarianism isn’t one of them.
It might seem like humanity disagrees over basic values, but the data is in: we actually don't.
Quote:
"One development that people both on the Left and the Right are unaware of is almost an inexorable force that leads affluent societies to devote increasing amounts of their wealth to social spending, to redistribution to children, to education, to healthcare, to supporting the poor, to supporting the aged."
Until the 20th century, most societies devoted about 1.5% of their GDP to social spending, and generally much less than that. In the last 100 years, that's changed: today the current global median of social spending is 22% of GDP. One group will groan most audibly at that data: Libertarians.
However, Pinker says it's no coincidence that there are zero libertarian countries on Earth; social spending is a shared value, even if the truest libertarians protest it, as the free market has no way to provide for poor children, the elderly, and other members of society who cannot contribute to the marketplace. As countries develop, they naturally initiate social spending programs. That's why libertarianism is a marginal idea, rather than a universal value—and it's likely to stay that way.
There's definitely some truth to this, but it's not the whole story.
It isn't just H1Bs who drove down the cost of labor. It was also illegal immigrants.
The other part of the story is the poorer half of the population has been having more kids than the richer half, and poor kids typically don't do well. That's doubly true because we've allowed out of wedlock births to skyrocket over the last 2 generations. It is well documented, even by left leaning researchers, that this typically leads to bad outcomes for children in schooling, future earnings, and their future ability to form stable family units. More single parent family units = more income and wealth inequality.
Exactly. But the Fed Gov actually financially incentivizes such behavior, as I've previously posted. They need to STOP doing so.
In both of your steps, you initiated force against other people first.
Once again, your particular predicament is a discussion you should have with your parents. They put you in that situation. They didn’t leave you any land to do what you want.
Unlucky for him he was born in america to normal parents. Wish he was a chinese like ypu who won a marriage green card lottery.
You cam here , took a job and now blame that s as mericans meed to work harder?
--It tends to create more down and out people/dependency.
--Medicare/Medicaid need major reform. For the amount of money we spend on these programs, they should already cover 100% of the population without the need to spend another dime, yet they only cover about 50% of the population.
As I've said, even a fair number of liberal leaning folks admit such things.
Bill Maher has been criticizing our health care system for years. He decries the price gouging but also recognizes that we're never going to have a financially sustainable health care system with 70% of the population overweight and over 1/3 obese.
Researchers like Isabel Sawhill of the Brookings institution (a left leaning think tank) has said government needs to promote/incentivize the "success sequence" of: Education, marriage, then kids--in that order--but the government is not really doing that. If it did, we wouldn't have as many down and out people.
All of that in bolded text is 100% correct.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
