Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
At NO time did Trump ever tell these people to storm the Capitol building.
He isn't Maxine Waters.
He told them to march on the capital, Giuliani and his son had already warmed up the audience. They were marching on the capitol because Trump told them the election was stolen. Death threats on elected officials in many state because of the GOP conspiracy theories you could see this coming a mile away, what exactly was the point of this rally.
Have you ever had a cop pull their gun on you? I have. They point their gun at you and start yelling at you over and over. Making it very clear to you they have a gun on you
I have as well... and it doesn't matter in this case.
The mission statement of a regular police officer is different from that of a Capitol police (and Secret Service for that matter).
I have mentioned this several times in this thread and even posted the mission statement of the DC metro police as well as Capitol police for comparison.
The Capitol police is more like a protection detail similar to the Secret Service. To protect a specific individual(s). In this case Congress.
The metro police (like other traditional police) are tasked with maintaining peace/order of an area and all protect all those that are in it. That includes potential criminals...
The fact that she was unarmed has absolutely nothing to do with whether the shooting was justified or not. I'm getting really tired of hearing people say stupid crap like this. Learn the law or stay out of the conversation. You're embarrassing yourself.
So..... shooting a drugged up, unarmed black man who's physically resisting arrest is murder........
But shooting an unarmed white woman who's still yards away from the police for breaching a barrier isn't?
Look, I think he acted lawfully. And he definitely won't be charged with any crimes. I think the courts would say it was justified because he was just doing his job. And he was.
But that isn't what I'm talking about. I'm asking you, as a man, would you have shot her? Was there really no non-lethal alternatives when there are probably 10+ police officers standing within 15 feet, and there were several cops who had literally been standing right next to her for who knows how long, and were practically in arms-reach of her when she was shot.
You can justify it all you want, you can call her stupid, a criminal, a traitor, whatever you like, but it was wrong.
I understand I'm never going to change your mind, especially not after 60 pages of the same stupid conversation.
Not a matter of “as a man”.
Yes; I would’ve pulled the trigger on her without thinking twice.
My job isn’t to control the rioters. My job is to protect the people down the hall. That barrier is there to keep them away.
- I’m not going to tackle her. That can let others get by.
- I’m not going to pepper spray her. I risk disabling myself in the process.
- I’m not going to wait for her to get through and then hope she listens when I tell her to halt when she’s already proven she can’t take a hint.
You’re in a high state of alert. There’s a lot of noise, and you’re constantly scanning everyone for a weapon and trying to predict their actions.
He did his job.
He did it properly.
White Americans need to stop thinking theyre immune to being shot in instances like this. He wasn’t pointing a pepper gun ball at her. He was pointing his firearm. If they’re pointing their firearm at you they intend to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineVA
I've often asked questions like these when looking back on situations that I read about or see on the news that involve shootings. Really, couldn't you shoot them in the leg? Couldn't this have been done or that? It's very easy to think of all the things that would have been better, but when you are faced with a situation like that where there are many unknowns and you are overwhelmed, it is shoot or be killed yourself. Honestly, you are giving her a bit of a pass because she was female and and somewhat attractive, to boot. I think it's hardwired into us to look at someone like her and think "oh, she looks like my daughter, she's not serious."
But...chalk this up to chaos and the fog of war. She was the first one breaching the last line of defense before probably accessing the folks these people are there to protect. By all accounts, she was given warnings. She has a backpack on her back. There is NO WAY to know if she was armed and taking the time to figure that out has the potential for getting law enforcement killed. In hindsight, yeah, it was sad that she had to lose her life when she obviously felt that law enforcement wasn't going to go that far. I'm sure her entire family is devastated and I feel for them. But I just don't see that there was any other way for this officer to act. He could have acted with more restraint but then I think he would have been putting congress members and way more risk to do so.
In situations like these you don’t shoot to wound.
People have taken a lot of rounds to their body hopped up on drugs. Even adrenaline can make you ignore the fact you’ve been shot for a short time if it’s not in an important location. In instances like these you’re eliminating the threat; that means shoot to kill ultimately as you’re aiming somewhere that has a higher probability of putting someone down. Depending on where he gets her in the leg she could be down the hall by the time she even notices.
And we’re really not even taking into account the reports of a couple bombs in DC that day. Anyone barging through the last barricade before getting to congressional members would be shot dead. Backpack or not.
She was unarmed and therefore no threat to the police in front of, or behind her or anyone else..
People planted bombs in the capital, did you see them. Hundreds of people rushing past these cops, total chaos with them battering the door and breaking windows and you could bet some had guns. Do you think a cop in this situation has time to debate who is a threat who who isn't, very difficult situation. Easy to type on a keyboard what a cop should have done in that particular situation.
He told them to march on the capital, Giuliani and his son had already warmed up the audience. They were marching on the capitol because Trump told them the election was stolen. Death threats on elected officials in many state because of the GOP conspiracy theories you could see this coming a mile away, what exactly was the point of this rally.
Heck, he even told them he would join them. Many folks thought he was with them.
Google "Capitol police uniform". The riot police who showed up were talking to three regular capitol hill officers and a staffer, you can tell by the badges on their jackets.
There were also multiple police on the other side of the door as well. One just to the left of the barricade(you can't really see him in that video), and another a bit further back in the next doorway, and others down the hallway.
Who don't appear to have been that helpful in getting the rioters to disperse. But perhaps that wasn't their job. And now the riot police were here. Even the regular CP officers had turned away from the door backs now towards it when Ashli climbed up. She moved too quickly for them to see and grab her. Or even if not, they might have had second thoughts about putting their own bodies in front of those guns given the warnings that were being made.
The riot police hadn't yet had time to move her and the remaining protestors out. Whether the plainclothes CP had any effective communication with other groups will be questioned. But it sounds like overall direction and communication among multiple LE was a mess. It's doubtful the plainclothes CP could see the riot police. And they certainly didn't talk to them by calling down the hall, through the barricade, the door, and the protestors at the door.
I'd noticed but hadn't guessed about the people peaking outside rooms on the other side of the barricade might be. Figured they weren't House members!
Like I said, I'm not sure this decision to fire was defensible - particularly since the House members now appear to have been further from the barricade than I'd originally thought. Although that didn't keep LE from having them shelter on the floor when the banging against the door started. Or for some members to say how scared they were. What does seem clear is that it wasn't necessarily the responsibility of others to save Ashli from herself.
That LE has been slow to provide clear details seems surprising, or maybe not. Still people make up their minds quickly about matters like this then tend not to change them even as more information becomes available.
He told them to march on the capital, Giuliani and his son had already warmed up the audience. They were marching on the capitol because Trump told them the election was stolen. Death threats on elected officials in many state because of the GOP conspiracy theories you could see this coming a mile away, what exactly was the point of this rally.
To storm the Capitol and try to stop the Certification of Biden. Having a rally this late in the game on a midweek day, and on the day of the Certification looked odd anyway, you had to know something was up.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
