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He would have had a lot of explaining to do if he had allowed her to breach the door.
Won't he have some explaining to do for killing an unarmed woman-for trespassing? Honestly though-the shooting may have been justified-he had a responsibility to protect the people under his watch. This shooting would be as justified as, say, Portland police opening fire on those throwing firebombs and explosives at them. Or at those blockading highways and attacking people in their cars. Or opening fire on those burning police cars and looting big-screens across the country. Police have a moral responsibility to protect those under their watch.
Flip side-there is NO legal requirement for them to do so. Multiple lawsuits across the country have established that police are not legally responsible for protecting citizens. They could have walked off their posts and abandoned the Capitol just as readily as Capitol Hill, Seattle, was abandoned to a mob of thugs.
It sickens me every time I think about it. A veteran was shot in cold blood and its a horrific incident. I feel for the woman's husband. No one deserves to be murdered, no matter what color or race. What bothers me most was that it was so unnecessary. The country as a whole should be ashamed.
Holding that rally was so unnecessary, it wasn't going to stop Biden from becoming the next president. If Trump didn't held this rally and invited all these angry people to Washington, four people would be alive today.
It's not clear to me what those options were if the goal was not to allow that perimeter to be breached. It wouldn't just have been Ashli who came through. Video can be truncated. But it sure appears the Speakers Lobby had just been cleared. Once the barrier went protestors would stream in behind the departing Congressman(men?) and staffers. And arrived at the door to the House Chamber where there was a large number of Congresspeople.
Four tactical squad members had arrived (still out of sight to the plainclothes CP) but it's reasonable to assume communications was a mess.
The shooting bothers me. None of this should have happened. From Ashli's death I can better understand the anger of the BLM. And from the way the protestors were treating the police, the anger at Antifa.
I would hope the plainclothes CP would not have shot had he known the tactical squad had arrived. The staffer wasn't closer to her but bent over talking to two of the newly arrival tactical squad when the shot was fired. In any case, he's almost certainly a staffer. No LE would wear a lanyard around his neck in the situation.
The only LE paying attention to Ashli was the plainclothes CP with the gun.
From the below video, the tactical squad turned the last corner near the top of the stairs just as the uniformed CP finished clearing the front of the door to stand against the wall. Offhand, I didn't notice them receiving any kind of communication. Impossible to tell if any had a view of the stairwell. Wouldn't think so given that crowd and the angles.
The uniformed officers had been told to leave for their own safety ... protestors now throwing punches into the glass around them ... the lobby now clear. Their leaving the door just a few seconds before the tactical officers turned the corner could well have been coincidence (or not).
The last uniformed CP (who'd been standing in the corner against the wall by the glass) apparently saw the gun come out right before the protestor starts shouting about it. He instinctively ducks and immediately moves out lightly pushing his two co-officers in front of them. There's no sign he said anything about a gun out to the staffer (or the tactical officers) who stands there with his back to the doors talking to two officers on the step below.
A larger question is why the tactical officers didn't immediately charge to the front to defend the door that the protestors were then attacking. They instead hesitated talking primarily to the staffer. Probably not a bad idea to first ask questions about possible weapons. Their priority did not appear to match that of the plainclothes CP. From their demeanor, there's no indication they heard the shouting about the gun. Much less saw Ashli.
It appeared that those officers, many armed with assault rifles, did not see the protesters as a threat.
I am getting sick if those on the right calling themselves Patriots or true patriots as though they have some superior claim to that title.
That comes across as arrogance, to be honest. What am I, not a true American or patriot? As in being a patriot someone distinguishes you from those of us on the left.
The first step in setting up an authoritarian state is often to start calling your side the patriots and act like the opposition us not. That playbook has been used many times around the world.
It is meaningless for those on the right to call themselves Patriots because most if us on the left are as well. That is not a distinguishing characteristic of the right or if the GOP or Trump followers.
That doesn't mean we refrain from calling out the warts in our society
I guess if I don't think like you I don't love the country like you do.
Most of the Democrats are every bit as patriotic as those on the right.
This Congress was freely elected, as was Joe Biden.
You lost a fair election.
Your side had it's day in court over sixty times including in conservative courtrooms. And lost every time. And, no, that is not some vast conspiracy.
What happened this week was utterly disgusting.
This woman was no hero. The officer did his job.
The bar is set very low for patriot status on the right. The word patriot lost its meaning more than a decade ago when the disgruntled right made everyone a patriot that had an axe to grind. Voicing your opinion doesn’t make you a patriot, protesting doesn’t make you a patriot. Not a patriot you’re just free to express yourself. Wanna be a true patriot? Join the military. Serve your country with more than your mouth. Then maybe you’ll be a patriot.
If they had "tried to overthrow the government", they would have gone armed. They would have stayed in the building and fought all attempts to remove them.
The hypocrisy is mind blowing.
Barricade police officers and staff in a building, then set fire to it? You're a hero.
Lay claim to public and private property, and fight off law enforcement when they try and remove you? You're a hero.
Fire projectiles and fireworks at officers attempting to remove you from public and private property? You're a hero.
Shine lasers into the eyes of officers attempting to remove you from public and private property? You're a hero.
Occupy public and private property for months? You're a hero.
If you're arrested for rioting, but it's a cause that the left agrees with, you will have your charges dropped, your bail paid by government officials, and you will be back again to destroy public and private property. If you don't see the double standard, you're the problem.
Mist if us on the left don't support any of that, so stop painting us with a broad brush
Supporting the protest movement last summer does not equate support for the radicals or the opportunists.
I absolutely support the protest movement. Ivhave not attacked any court houses, burned any CVS'es, etc. I condemn those who do. I love the YSA. I do not breath fire, worship the devil, engage in pedophilia (yes, many on the right are pushing this sort of depiction of liberals). I am a typical liberal.
Many posters on here seem to see the protest movement as some monolithic mass if people who all think and act alike.
The vast majority of those on the left, of Democrats, of those who too part in the protest movement
My observation is that many on the right like to go on and on painting everyone on the left with that broad brush...even though they have done little or nothing historically to address the issues of police brutality and racism. Which makes it sound like there is a lot of deflection going on.
As a society we have done far too little to call out the growing right wing authoritarianism, sense of entitlement, hate, and demonization of the other side in this country.
Won't he have some explaining to do for killing an unarmed woman-for trespassing? Honestly though-the shooting may have been justified-he had a responsibility to protect the people under his watch. This shooting would be as justified as, say, Portland police opening fire on those throwing firebombs and explosives at them. Or at those blockading highways and attacking people in their cars. Or opening fire on those burning police cars and looting big-screens across the country. Police have a moral responsibility to protect those under their watch.
Flip side-there is NO legal requirement for them to do so. Multiple lawsuits across the country have established that police are not legally responsible for protecting citizens. They could have walked off their posts and abandoned the Capitol just as readily as Capitol Hill, Seattle, was abandoned to a mob of thugs.
We are talking about an attack on the Congress.
She was not killed for trespassing. She was killed for storming the Capitol to overthrow an election. This was an attack on our democracy.
The assassination of John Kennedy was a bigger deal than an typical homicide. The same principle applies to an attack on Congress.
And stop acting like everyone on the left spent all summer lobbing Molotov cocktails when the vast majority of us did not, and did not support those who did. That is deflection intended to discredit the movement and avoid talking about the principles we are fighting for.
Would you expect the Secret Service to just walk off and abandon the President?
A protest movement occupying a few streets in Seattle us not the equivalents of a mob storming the Capitol in an attempt to thwart an election.
George Floyd used a counterfeit $20 in a store and the cashier called the cops...that's what started the whole REAL drama.
First off, the fake $20 was so poorly made that it was easily recognizable. That's like a 10 year old trying to use Monopoly money. He couldn't purchase a stick of gum with it. BARELY a crime. I could walk in with a photocopied $20 and would probably get laughed out of the store. Pretty sure George wasn't part of a multi-billion dollar illegal currency ring.
At the very least, he should have been petitioned to use real money for his purchase, or asked to exit the store. End of story.
Then whole swarm death choke thing was cops who have egos to fill their own self doubts about their manhood and place in society.
She will go down in history and recognized as a true American patriot though!!!
Have to remember 'TRUE patriots' are usually always considered criminals/traitors initially.
A true patriot? She was trying to climb through a window to assault members of congress, that is treason, not heroism.
The last uniformed CP (who'd been standing in the corner against the wall by the glass) apparently saw the gun come out right before the protestor starts shouting about it. He instinctively ducks and immediately moves out lightly pushing his two co-officers in front of them. There's no sign he said anything about a gun out to the staffer (or the tactical officers) who stands there with his back to the doors talking to two officers on the step below.
A larger question is why the tactical officers didn't immediately charge to the front to defend the door that the protestors were then attacking. They instead hesitated talking primarily to the staffer. Probably not a bad idea to first ask questions about possible weapons. Their priority did not appear to match that of the plainclothes CP. From their demeanor, there's no indication they heard the shouting about the gun. Much less saw Ashli.
I hadn't seen that view before - the unarmed staffer practically caught Ashli as she fell backwards (not an exaggeration) - that is how close he was to the barricade and the first element of the Tac squad was just one pace behind him. BTW the staffer is cool as a cucumber in the chaos. (He was very close to being shot by the round that hit Ashli...one of the TAC guys even raises his rifle but then realizes what has just happened.) Now that I see it, it is obvious the shooter didn't know the TAC squad had arrived.
(It also appears the staffer doesn't see the crowd (with the camera angle it looked to be about 15 of them) at the barricades to be a threat to him at all and ditto the TAC squad and the crowd didn't seem to want any physical contact with either of them. It didn't even look like the crowd was interested in touching the non-tactical uniformed policemen. I think that might account for the delay in moving to the barricade. That is just my guess.)
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 01-09-2021 at 02:20 PM..
It appeared that those officers, many armed with assault rifles, did not see the protesters as a threat.
The protesters were not a threat, not until (potentially) they reached a Congressperson with their security not willing to undertake that experiment. As they were saying their argument was not with The Blue.
The tactical unit did not seem to give the same importance to the barricade as the plainclothes CP who shot. They had been consulting the staffer for a minute or two even though the attack on the door was underway.
Was that a communications issue?: They had no clue about the potential importance of the landing only knowing they'd been sent to clear-it? No knowledge the lobby had just been cleared and potentially exposed Congressman(men) still close by. Plus now present they would be able to help other officers at the end of the hall scoop up the protestors before they could breach the House Floor door that was also barricaded.
Or protocol?: Difference in engagement rules between those directly charged with protecting key figures and other LE?
Or the plainclothes CP firing totally out of bounds?
No idea. But what seems clear is that Ashli knew about the gun aimed at whoever came thru that window when she made her move. The only ones who could have potentially saved her from herself were the two protestors who helped her into the window who also knew about the gun. The uniformed CP in the corner also appeared to see it and in theory could have lunged forward to grab her. Already spooked, he wanted out period. And why should he risk his life going into a field of fire?
Hard to blame him at that point. I wouldn't be surprised if the investigation ends up with more blame on the Chief of CP who has already resigned. But not specifically at the firing officer unless he was, in fact, totally out of bounds. Or knew the tactical squad had arrived.
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