Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There were some who wanted to intervene, but were stopped. At least from what I understand. You kneel on somebody's neck for 10 minutes, several of those in which the man has quit moving, I know your intention. The protocol was for him to turn him on his side so he could breathe. He did not. Murder.
Certainly there was negligence on the part of the Officer, but to what degree? Personally, I see it as a possibility of manslaughter .
I still find it hard to believe someone , or a group of people didn’t intervene. We have all seen Police confronted,, even physically for actions not as severe.
His actions were intentional. He purposely did what he did, despite his own police protocol. Absolutely murder in my book, especially with all the people who were around him being alarmed by his actions, seeing Floyd in dire need of assistance and not allowing any for him. Unconscionable. We do not need people like this in our police force.
I certainly agree that people like this should not be police officers. Actions are seemingly intentional. I think which of the charges the Jury ultimately finds him guilty of rests on whether or not the Jury determines intent.
As of today, there are at two senior officers (today was a Homicide officer) that both testified that the use of force was unnecessary.
I personally don't think he is going to walk. But which charges ultimately guilty of is really going to rest on the case yet to be presented by the defense team.
I still find it hard to believe someone , or a group of people didn’t intervene. We have all seen Police confronted,, even physically for actions not as severe.
Really, I think this might be your white privilege talking.
The majority of folks at the scene watching were young black males. There were two white women there and one young hispanic male. This was not a riot scene where the police were under orders not to fight back. Had several of those black males physically intervened, they would have been shot.
And you can not have it both ways. You want folks to be compliant and follow the orders of the police, who are armed, but yet physically confront them when they commit wrongdoing in the midst of manhandling a suspect?
This did not occur in Mayberry R.F.D, but in downtown Minneapolis where the relationship between the citizens and police have been problematic at times.
Sorry,, you can’t say what his intent was other than an opinion.
What has troubled me is that out of all those people around,, no one stepped up to intervene? Perhaps they all lacked the skill and tact to approach the Officer in a civil manner with their concerns.
All they appeared to do. Is yell, which possibly could have made things worse..
Police, or no Police, I don’t care. Personally I definitely would have intervened had I been a witness. I would have lied and said I was a Doctor.
Perhaps it is just the conditioning of living under the circumstances of that neighborhood. They. may have been unconsciously conditioned to indifference.
It is both. troubling and perplexing to see all the emotion of testimony, but they all basically stood there and watched.
I've grown up in a poor crime neighborhood. You simply are taught not to intervene... stay out of it... the feeling is that the ramifications (beyond just the current police) is unseen and unknowable. There are times when a crime or fight is currently in progress people just retreat out of sight. Recall there was an assault on a Asian woman recently. The doorman of the building right in front simply walked to the front door and closed it. That behavior isn't uncommon.
Also keep in mind there was a Firefighter/EMT in that crowd. In the beginning she tried to intervene by revealing she was an experienced off duty firefighter. She was initially calm and couldn't get through to the officer holding the crowd back. That officer's response was "If you are really a firefighter, you would know better than to get involved." That statement was totally uncalled for... she is a medical personal and should feel it is her duty to render aid irregardless of the person.
I'm not so sure anyone would outright assault the officers in attempt to save that man's life. That is a loosing proposition.. futile attempt. Four officers on scene against a single person. That isn't going to end well. One of the people on scene is a trained MMA fighter and professional security guard. Even he didn't think it would be a good course of action. In this particular case, that type of action would have actually helped the defense's case... one of the foundations of their arguments was that the officers were afraid of a potentially violent crowd which clouded the officer's judgement.
As for pretending to be Doctor. I don't think it would have worked as it didn't work for the off duty firefighter. Furthermore, doing so (i believe) is actually a crime in of itself.
I've grown up in a poor crime neighborhood. You simply are taught not to intervene... stay out of it... the feeling is that the ramifications (beyond just the current police) is unseen and unknowable. There are times when a crime or fight is currently in progress people just retreat out of sight. Recall there was an assault on a Asian woman recently. The doorman of the building right in front simply walked to the front door and closed it. That behavior isn't uncommon.
Also keep in mind there was a Firefighter/EMT in that crowd. In the beginning she tried to intervene by revealing she was an experienced off duty firefighter. She was initially calm and couldn't get through to the officer holding the crowd back. That officer's response was "If you are really a firefighter, you would know better than to get involved." That statement was totally uncalled for... she is a medical personal and should feel it is her duty to render aid irregardless of the person.
I'm not so sure anyone would outright assault the officers in attempt to save that man's life. That is a loosing proposition.. futile attempt. Four officers on scene against a single person. That isn't going to end well. One of the people on scene is a trained MMA fighter and professional security guard. Even he didn't think it would be a good course of action. In this particular case, that type of action would have actually helped the defense's case... one of the foundations of their arguments was that the officers were afraid of a potentially violent crowd which clouded the officer's judgement.
As for pretending to be Doctor. I don't think it would have worked as it didn't work for the off duty firefighter. Furthermore, doing so (i believe) is actually a crime in of itself.
A police officer is no different from any other professional on the job. Even a heart surgeon cannot be expected to be perfect all the time.
I've grown up in a poor crime neighborhood. You simply are taught not to intervene... stay out of it... the feeling is that the ramifications (beyond just the current police) is unseen and unknowable. There are times when a crime or fight is currently in progress people just retreat out of sight. Recall there was an assault on a Asian woman recently. The doorman of the building right in front simply walked to the front door and closed it. That behavior isn't uncommon.
Also keep in mind there was a Firefighter/EMT in that crowd. In the beginning she tried to intervene by revealing she was an experienced off duty firefighter. She was initially calm and couldn't get through to the officer holding the crowd back. That officer's response was "If you are really a firefighter, you would know better than to get involved." That statement was totally uncalled for... she is a medical personal and should feel it is her duty to render aid irregardless of the person.
I'm not so sure anyone would outright assault the officers in attempt to save that man's life. That is a loosing proposition.. futile attempt. Four officers on scene against a single person. That isn't going to end well. One of the people on scene is a trained MMA fighter and professional security guard. Even he didn't think it would be a good course of action. In this particular case, that type of action would have actually helped the defense's case... one of the foundations of their arguments was that the officers were afraid of a potentially violent crowd which clouded the officer's judgement.
As for pretending to be Doctor. I don't think it would have worked as it didn't work for the off duty firefighter. Furthermore, doing so (i believe) is actually a crime in of itself.
I am very family with neighborhoods in the lower tiers of socio economics. I operated businesses for years in those environments.
That’s not the way I remember the populace. How then do you explain incidents where groups , almost mobs, interfere , or attempt to interfere with Police activity?
I wasn’t there, and can’t speculate. Nothing is futile unless it is tried and fails.
You made some valid points, however it is still perplexing to me. And hey, I can pass for a Doctor !
But maybe it is just me. 40 years ago I was sitting in a Macdonalds , and an 11 year old boy started choking. His elderly ( presumed ) Grandparents were slapping him on the back. There had to be 30 or 40 adults just watching, not doing anything as he was turning blue. The person standing next to me was an RN, and said “ Hey ( my name) go over there and give him the Heimlich . She couldn’t because she was between me and the wall.
I got up, it took two times, as I went gentle the first time not to injure, and the Macnugget flew across the room.
I believe there have been studies on this going way back to Kitty Genoese and her murder .
Last edited by Speegleagle; 04-02-2021 at 11:40 AM..
Ok all why I think George Floyd was`nt killed by the police . This is what really happen to my Son, a big guy, I took him to the hospital cause he couldn't breathe. He was admitted in finding what was wrong with him. He was also was having alcohol detoxing and lost his mind in some delusions. They put him in a back room to stopped him from his struggling in wanting to leave . Security police came in and he remembered the police put in down and one put his knees on his neck and back for a long time. Medical found out he was having Pneumonia and why he couldn't breathe. He stay in the hospital.
The police didn't kill my son with that pressure on his neck is why ,what I trying to say, the police did not killed George Floyd and he was really dying from having a over dose on the drugs .
What do you think a cop's business is? A cop's job is that of a trained guard dog. The onus is on Floyd not to get bitten when the dog gives a warning growl. If Chauvin was a 120 pound K-9 doberman, Floyd would have been torn to shreds and the dog would get a medal.
I say that he has no business being a cop is simple: He showed extreme lack of judgement continuing to kneel on Floyd for as long as he did.
There are some important rules that police must follow. They are trained to use their gun, but they have to be extremely prudent in their use of that gun. If they are trained to kneel on a suspect, then fine. They need to be prudent with kneeling on suspects. Over 8 minutes was excessive. Continuing to kneel when Floyd became unresponsive was imprudent use of the technique. Not knowing when to stop demonstrates Chauvin's extreme lack of judgement.
I do struggle to put the bulk of the blame on Chauvin for Floyd's death. Floyd would have been better off getting in the damn car. He refused. He would have been better off not resisting arrest. He refused. Subduing him outside the car and waiting: That was Floyd's decision. Chauvin wanted to stick him in the car and take him to jail. Floyd would have done time for counterfeiting and drugs, but he'd still be alive.
So to break it down, here are Floyd's contributions to his own death:
Having COVID-19 and not quarantining at home like he should have. (Floyd also exposed all of the cops and everyone he interacted with. Not cool!)
Despite knowing he has a serious heart condition and almost dying of an overdose previously, he took Fentanyl and other drugs anyways.
Being uncooperative when the police arrived to arrest him. (Just put your other hand on the wheel you idiot!)
Apparently, downing drugs to hide the evidence when the police were approaching.
Refusing to get in the police car, thereby making it extremely unlikely that they could get him emergency medical help for overdosing.
The case could go either way. The jury might very well decide that Chauvin and the other officers were responsible for Floyd's safety after having him in handcuffs. You have to weigh that against all the things that Floyd did to cause his own death. You have to determine whether Floyd would have died entirely from his own actions. You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin's knee was the thing that killed Floyd. But if the knee is conclusively determined to be a significant contributing factor to Floyd's death, then the jury likely convicts on 3rd degree or manslaughter.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
