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I believe it was excessive force and a potentially dangerous method of restraining someone. The fact that he did those things alone should lead to charges, but Floyd died as a result of a drug overdose, so murder charges are not appropriate.
What is the danger in that restraint for that long?
I'm not concerned with what was written as an opinion, I'm concerned with the facts.
The facts show that Floyd had a likely lethal dose of Fentanyl in his system....and it wasn't his first overdose while being arrested.
They could write down COVID-19 as the cause of death and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me. 11ng/ml of Fentanyl in your system is something that cannot be overlooked....and typically would outright be ruled the sole cause of death. There's quite a bit of politics involved in this case, and anyone involved with it has to be concerned about their lives and the lives of their families, so I fully understand why things have happened as they have.
You are concerned with speculation, not facts. You yourself admitted that Floyd had a history of opioid addiction. Much like alcohol addiction, people develop tolerance for certain substances. I am sure you are aware of this. Maybe you aren’t.
In the case of alcohol poisoning, what may kill me would be just a usual day to day blood alcohol level for some chronic alcoholic. Similarly, what may be a potentially lethal level of fentanyl for an opioid-naïve person could very well be tolerated by someone with chronic opioid dependence.
If you can sit there and talk about fentanyl levels, but ignore tolerance as a factual phenomenon, and presume your theory as “fact” for every case, then the problem is your understanding of the word fact.
In the real world, the presence of fentanyl in Floyd’s blood only indicates he had abused fentanyl. That it represents a lethal level is not a fact. That is the reason you will find NO report that states this as fact.
I hope you learned a lesson about facts today. You’re welcome.
That's approximately how much time it would take, plus we're not just talking about him only taking Fentanyl here, he took that while high on meth. Strong stimulants and strong depressants put a real toll on the heart....in his case, he had a heart that had a 90% blockage in an artery.....and he died of cardiopulmonary arrest.
and that pressure on the carotid artery made the 10% more blockage------Bam! Heart and lungs go into arrest . Imagine that 100% impediment - How long do you think a person can sustain that?? Maybe 9 minutes? or less.
All due to a careless act by an officer who did NOT follow protocal, and DID not listen to his peers when informed NO pulse! He certainly had a pulse in the store, he had a pulse when sitting along the side walk. He had a pulse in the police car. Where oh where do you think the CAUSE and EFFECT happened?
The medical examiner finalized the manner of death as Homicide. NOT SUICIDE.
The question before the courts is the IF NOT BUT FOR- The (CAUSE). They are seeking how much Chauvins negligence played a role in the demise of Mr Floyd. It doesnt even have to be 100%. It has to be the MAIN recipricating cause . Example: Johnny is in the water - He is caught by a wave, his swimming buddy decides to " Help him" by Shoving him under the water and keeping him there for 20 additional minutes- Ohh no! Looks like by science he DROWNED- But wait for it......
His swimming buddy was the MAIN cause of Johnnys early demise. See how that works. ??
So you can talk til doomsday that drugs were the water- and I can tell you Derek was the Swimming buddy who held him under...
and that pressure on the carotid artery made the 10% more blockage------Bam! Heart and lungs go into arrest . Imagine that 100% impediment - How long do you think a person can sustain that?? Maybe 9 minutes? or less.
All due to a careless act by an officer who did NOT follow protocal, and DID not listen to his peers when informed NO pulse! He certainly had a pulse in the store, he had a pulse when sitting along the side walk. He had a pulse in the police car. Where oh where do you think the CAUSE and EFFECT happened?
The medical examiner finalized the manner of death as Homicide. NOT SUICIDE.
The question before the courts is the IF NOT BUT FOR- The (CAUSE). They are seeking how much Chauvins negligence played a role in the demise of Mr Floyd. It doesnt even have to be 100%. It has to be the MAIN recipricating cause . Example: Johnny is in the water - He is caught by a wave, his swimming buddy decides to " Help him" by Shoving him under the water and keeping him there for 20 additional minutes- Ohh no! Looks like by science he DROWNED- But wait for it......
His swimming buddy was the MAIN cause of Johnnys early demise. See how that works. ??
So you can talk til doomsday that drugs were the water- and I can tell you Derek was the Swimming buddy who held him under...
It doesn't even have to be that. It has to be 'substantial'. If the jury does it's job, that is a wrap.
and that pressure on the carotid artery made the 10% more blockage------Bam! Heart and lungs go into arrest . Imagine that 100% impediment - How long do you think a person can sustain that?? Maybe 9 minutes? or less.
All due to a careless act by an officer who did NOT follow protocal, and DID not listen to his peers when informed NO pulse! He certainly had a pulse in the store, he had a pulse when sitting along the side walk. He had a pulse in the police car. Where oh where do you think the CAUSE and EFFECT happened?
The medical examiner finalized the manner of death as Homicide. NOT SUICIDE.
The question before the courts is the IF NOT BUT FOR- The (CAUSE). They are seeking how much Chauvins negligence played a role in the demise of Mr Floyd. It doesnt even have to be 100%. It has to be the MAIN recipricating cause . Example: Johnny is in the water - He is caught by a wave, his swimming buddy decides to " Help him" by Shoving him under the water and keeping him there for 20 additional minutes- Ohh no! Looks like by science he DROWNED- But wait for it......
His swimming buddy was the MAIN cause of Johnnys early demise. See how that works. ??
So you can talk til doomsday that drugs were the water- and I can tell you Derek was the Swimming buddy who held him under...
What might have Chauvin been thinking he was doing? which is more likely
a) He thought he was just pining him down. He didn't realize Floyd was actually dead for a couple of minutes toward the end. He thought with the three of him on his back he had just given up and thought Floyd was just in the process of making up his mind to agree to stop resisting and tell them.
b) He thought eventually Floyd would pass out but not die. He didn't realize not only did he pass out, he had died.
c) He knew George Floyd, they both worked at a club and didn't like him. He didn't like the resistance either. The crowd was pissing him off too.
He felt powerful because they had finally pinned him down and it felt good on a primal level. After the first 5 minutes Floyd had stopped resisting or talking and he became very satisfied by that, intoxicated by it. He lost track of time. He didn't know if Floyd was knocked out or dead and he didn't care, a strange peaceful feeling had come over him. He never felt so satisfied and in control in his life. And none those people yelling at him could do anything about it. If Floyd died so what, knee restraints were allowed in the manual. He wasn't thinking about that so much, He was just sort of in a zone.
What might have Chauvin been thinking he was doing? which is more likely
a) He thought he was just pining him down. He didn't realize Floyd was actually dead for a couple of minutes toward the end. He thought with the three of him on his back he had just given up and thought Floyd was just in the process of making up his mind to agree to stop resisting and tell them.
b) He thought eventually Floyd would pass out but not die. He didn't realize not only did he pass out, he had died.
c) He knew George Floyd, they both worked at a club and didn't like him. He didn't like the resistance either. The crowd was pissing him off too.
He felt powerful because they had finally pinned him down and it felt good on a primal level. After the first 5 minutes Floyd had stopped resisting or talking and he became very satisfied by that, intoxicated by it. He lost track of time. He didn't know if Floyd was knocked out or dead and he didn't care, a strange peaceful feeling had come over him. He never felt so satisfied and in control in his life. And none those people yelling at him could do anything about it. If Floyd died so what, knee restraints were allowed in the manual. He wasn't thinking about that so much, He was just sort of in a zone.
More likely that had done it plenty of times before without complications, but this time he struck a very unhealthy dude who just ingested a load of fentanyl.
You are concerned with speculation, not facts. You yourself admitted that Floyd had a history of opioid addiction. Much like alcohol addiction, people develop tolerance for certain substances. I am sure you are aware of this. Maybe you aren’t.
In the case of alcohol poisoning, what may kill me would be just a usual day to day blood alcohol level for some chronic alcoholic. Similarly, what may be a potentially lethal level of fentanyl for an opioid-naïve person could very well be tolerated by someone with chronic opioid dependence.
If you can sit there and talk about fentanyl levels, but ignore tolerance as a factual phenomenon, and presume your theory as “fact” for every case, then the problem is your understanding of the word fact.
In the real world, the presence of fentanyl in Floyd’s blood only indicates he had abused fentanyl. That it represents a lethal level is not a fact. That is the reason you will find NO report that states this as fact.
I hope you learned a lesson about facts today. You’re welcome.
The way you talk down to people is rude.
This case is still ongoing and it might be helpful listening to the witnesses, including those on the defense side when they give their testimony.
What might have Chauvin been thinking he was doing? which is more likely
a) He thought he was just pining him down. He didn't realize Floyd was actually dead for a couple of minutes toward the end. He thought with the three of him on his back he had just given up and thought Floyd was just in the process of making up his mind to agree to stop resisting and tell them.
b) He thought eventually Floyd would pass out but not die. He didn't realize not only did he pass out, he had died.
c) He knew George Floyd, they both worked at a club and didn't like him. He didn't like the resistance either. The crowd was pissing him off too.
He felt powerful because they had finally pinned him down and it felt good on a primal level. After the first 5 minutes Floyd had stopped resisting or talking and he became very satisfied by that, intoxicated by it. He lost track of time. He didn't know if Floyd was knocked out or dead and he didn't care, a strange peaceful feeling had come over him. He never felt so satisfied and in control in his life. And none those people yelling at him could do anything about it. If Floyd died so what, knee restraints were allowed in the manual. He wasn't thinking about that so much, He was just sort of in a zone.
I'll take D- None of the above. And NO that particular restraint is NOT in the manual or training course.
No one other then the defendant Knows His mindset. So speculation is the best you have.
When that is the preclude - The behavior of the defendent then has to carry some "weight" on his actions.
He is trained- He is in his trained Environment. He knows the procedures. He "chose" to NOT administer Life saving aide. ( as proven by his NOT doing so) . He Knew by his other officers that they could not detect a pulse. Two other men were on the subjects body. Their combined weight was more then the subject.
The defense can play this ambiguious game of "In general" when questioning witness's. Because the reality is IF He got specific and concrete in asking questions the answers WOULD NOT fit his narrative. Because Specifically only the facts of that event are what need discussed, Not whether in Timbukto a man got out of his seat belt and did a dance.
The defense showed pictures, the cop`s knee was on his shoulder blade, not on his neck.
As I was reading the comments in this forum, including yours, I looked at the video. You mentioned pictures. Have you seen the video? The officer has his knee on the neck. Did he move his need during the time, yes he did. But, I saw his knee on the guy for a good while. People around were exhorting the officer to take the knee off his back. So, may have some validity, however, the officer did have his knee on the neck.
Previously, I only had seen excerpts of the incident from the news media only. I made sure to go and see part of the incident when the officer was on him.
What was truly upsetting was that the officer did not show ANY type of concern for the guy, zero. The people were telling him that the guy was not fighting it. Granted, he may have resisted in the initial state, but he was clearly subdued, and show no sign of scuffling to get free.
For a good while, the guy stopped talking and look unconscious. The people were asking the officer to check him out, and the officer show no care whatsoever.
At this point my empirical conclusion without many other specifics, I think he dies due to a combination of things, drugs and the officer's action may have aggravated the situation. He could have avoided the death of the guy by checking on him. He never did at all.
Now that I saw the scene without being edited, I believe we went too far in restraining the guy.
Keep this in mind, pictured captured an instant, the video captured minutes. The prosecution could have shown the instances when the officer moved his knee. However, to me, he kept his knee on the neck for a long time, even after the guy lost consciousness.
You have a great day.
elamigo
As I was reading the comments in this forum, including yours, I looked at the video. You mentioned pictures. Have you seen the video? The officer has his knee on the neck. Did he move his need during the time, yes he did. But, I saw his knee on the guy for a good while. People around were exhorting the officer to take the knee off his back. So, may have some validity, however, the officer did have his knee on the neck.
Previously, I only had seen excerpts of the incident from the news media only. I made sure to go and see part of the incident when the officer was on him.
What was truly upsetting was that the officer did not show ANY type of concern for the guy, zero. The people were telling him that the guy was not fighting it. Granted, he may have resisted in the initial state, but he was clearly subdued, and show no sign of scuffling to get free.
For a good while, the guy stopped talking and look unconscious. The people were asking the officer to check him out, and the officer show no care whatsoever.
At this point my empirical conclusion without many other specifics, I think he dies due to a combination of things, drugs and the officer's action may have aggravated the situation. He could have avoided the death of the guy by checking on him. He never did at all.
Now that I saw the scene without being edited, I believe we went too far in restraining the guy.
Keep this in mind, pictured captured an instant, the video captured minutes. The prosecution could have shown the instances when the officer moved his knee. However, to me, he kept his knee on the neck for a long time, even after the guy lost consciousness.
You have a great day.
elamigo
Went too far in restraining the guy?
I should say so.
Went all the way to murdering him in cold blood, in front of cops.
Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 04-07-2021 at 05:22 AM..
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