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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 3 days ago)
35,613 posts, read 17,935,039 times
Reputation: 50634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
Manslaughter charge or hung jury.
How long? Before the end of the week.
It doesn't seem judges allow juries to hang much anymore.
They sequester them until the few holdouts cave and agree to a verdict they don't agree to.
I personally believe juries should be allowed to hang. That's what the founding fathers imagined when they required a jury of 12 be unanimous. They didn't attend for a majority in the jury box to bully the others, or the court to hold them all hostage in a hotel and force them into consensus before allowing them to leave, however long it takes.
If this jury has not reached an agreement by the end of the deliberating day today, they're not in agreement.
I have to leave in a bit but was wondering if you read the Instructions to the Jury?
The closing arguments of the defense & the prosecution are somewhat standard; each seeks to leave an impression on the jury.
The following is from a response upthread re: Dr. Thomas' testimony:
& this is from an earlier response re: Professor Seth Stoughton’s testimony:
I'm not sure if the question is just if I read the Instructions to the Jury. I did, and I do believe the jury is going to go through all the evidence meticulously. I was just noting the tone of the prosecution's closing arguments. The final thought was not regarding the autopsy or look at the medical evidence, it will lead you in the right direction. The final thought they wanted to put into jurors' minds was go with what you felt while watching the video.
I certainly don't think the jury is going to go back to the deliberation room and say, well he said just watch the video so that's all I'm going to do.
I honestly don't think the closing arguments did a whole lot for the prosecution's case, one way or the other. It was a decent summary of the case. The defense had more riding on the closing and I think Nelson did as good of a job as he could.
I watched Dr. Thomas' testimony several times. If you watch it several times, you'll see where she contradicts herself and where she says things just trying to stick to the narrative the prosecution has given her. A few places she was flat out wrong, such as the purpose of listing contributing factors in an autopsy report. She said it was largely listed for statistical purposes so that there was a record in case the CDC wanted to use the data. Dr. Baker said that was nonsense, he wouldn't list it if it didn't play a role in the death of Floyd. There is a reason she was called right before Dr. Baker. She essentially said, you don't need all his phony-baloney medical stuff, just watch the video.
One knee was on his back the other was on his neck. Look at the video and photographic evidence that was presented in court. When weight is applied to a prone persons back it makes it difficult to breathe.
Except he said he couldn't breathe before that, in my recollection.
yes it is reasonable. They should have been sequestered from day one and if not able they could have requested a dismissal from their jury duty. The judge is actually an idiot because now we know Chauvin is getting off on appeal. Then auntie maxine comes in and makes it even worse.
How many people could afford to place their duties & responsibilities as a juror over their personal & familial duties & responsibilities?
The fact that Derek Chauvin will appeal is likely a 'sure thing' although his "getting off on appeal" is not as assured.
& there's also the federal civil rights investigation & grand jury:
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 3 days ago)
35,613 posts, read 17,935,039 times
Reputation: 50634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grlzrl
Except he said he couldn't breathe before that, in my recollection.
I don't think anyone disagrees that he had been saying he couldn't breathe the whole time.
Even before Chauvin rested his weight on Floyd's neck/shoulder.
The question remains; was that murderous intent, or at least extremely careless, to put his weight on the neck and back of someone who is stating they can't breathe?
If saw someone complaining over and over they couldn't breathe, would you suggest putting your body weight on their neck?
It doesn't seem judges allow juries to hang much anymore.
They sequester them until the few holdouts cave and agree to a verdict they don't agree to.
I personally believe juries should be allowed to hang. That's what the founding fathers imagined when they required a jury of 12 be unanimous. They didn't attend for a majority in the jury box to bully the others, or the court to hold them all hostage in a hotel and force them into consensus before allowing them to leave, however long it takes.
If this jury has not reached an agreement by the end of the deliberating day today, they're not in agreement.
One of the analysts of the case, a former judge, said they never had a hung jury, which is somewhat disturbing. I've heard reports of yelling, crying, pounding on tables in other trials.
I think there should be a process they follow where jurors can talk to each other and share what they found relevant in the data, but that it should be highly regulated. I think they should anonymously vote maybe a few times, but the thing of stay in there until you all agree just doesn't sound right. I also think there should be a cap on the number of days they deliberate instead of it just being up to the judge.
His knee was on the back, Floyd was a violent felon, crowd was becoming agitated, police aren't medical professionals, there was testimony that people can fake being short of breath and then fight again, Floyd was screaming at the top of his lungs he "caint breeve" despite the fact he clearly was . There's just too much proof that this dude could breathe and wouldn't stop fighting.
It doesn't seem judges allow juries to hang much anymore.
They sequester them until the few holdouts cave and agree to a verdict they don't agree to.
I personally believe juries should be allowed to hang. That's what the founding fathers imagined when they required a jury of 12 be unanimous. They didn't attend for a majority in the jury box to bully the others, or the court to hold them all hostage in a hotel and force them into voting against their belief.
I agree. However, in this case I don't think the judge will force this jury to render a decision if they can't come to an agreement by early next week.
I suspect there are one or two who want a 2nd degree conviction and one, maybe two who want him to walk. The rest are fighting over 3rd murder and manslaughter.
The judge knows this trial has been a complete mess. If there is a hung jury I suspect we won't see another.. A deal will be struck. I don't think Chauvin will walk but ultimately I don't think he will do much time either.
I don't think anyone disagrees that he had been saying he couldn't breathe the whole time.
Even before Chauvin rested his weight on Floyd's neck/shoulder.
The question remains; was that murderous intent, or at least extremely careless, to put his weight on the neck and back of someone who is stating they can't breathe?
If saw someone complaining over and over they couldn't breathe, would you suggest putting your body weight on their neck?
I am sure he was used to violent people making all kinds of false claims to get out of being arrested. I guess since neither of us were there, we have to maybe assume the cop had to use his experience and judgement. I am not a cop and you aren't, right? Or you think he was thinking 'How can I kill this black man, ruin my life and career and set off nationwide riots for it?
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