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Or have Jordan and other countries assume control of those territories as they once did.<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976
Why not just have Jordan resettle them into their country? They’re actually Jordanians.<snip>
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
And Palestinians in the West Bank once were Jordanians by nationality after Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950. Funny, you didn't hear any cries about Jordan denying the Palestinian their rights (the reason for that is clear I argue).
Quick reminder, not to you two, but the readers. there is really no such thing as a 'Palestinian' nationality because there never has been a nation or state of Palestine. Regarding Jordan, I again remind the readers of Black September.
Why do you think they were? I am sure we would all be intrigued by your honest answer.
I'm honestly trying to understand it and currently doing research on the topic because it's truely a unique phenomenon throughout history.
From a religious standpoint it might have to do with the following scene from the Bible:
Pilate asks the crowd, “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” The crowd answers, “Crucify him!” Pilate publicly proclaims Jesus’ innocence, but “they shouted all the louder, ‘Crucify him!’” (verse 23). Pilate then famously washes his hands, declaring himself to be “innocent” (verse 24) and telling the crowd that Jesus’ death “is your responsibility!” It is a responsibility that the mob accepts, shouting the chilling words, “His blood is on us and on our children!” (verse 25).
I'm honestly trying to understand it and currently doing research on the topic because it's truely a unique phenomenon throughout history.
From a religious standpoint it might have to do with the following scene from the Bible:
Pilate asks the crowd, “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” The crowd answers, “Crucify him!” Pilate publicly proclaims Jesus’ innocence, but “they shouted all the louder, ‘Crucify him!’” (verse 23). Pilate then famously washes his hands, declaring himself to be “innocent” (verse 24) and telling the crowd that Jesus’ death “is your responsibility!” It is a responsibility that the mob accepts, shouting the chilling words, “His blood is on us and on our children!” (verse 25).
What do these New Testament verses blaming Jews for killing Jesus - which, by the way, caused thousands of years of persecution of Jews - have to do with Israel? I thought hating Israel had nothing to do with anger or hostility toward Jews, so why bring it up?
I'm honestly trying to understand it and currently doing research on the topic because it's truely a unique phenomenon throughout history.
From a religious standpoint it might have to do with the following scene from the Bible:
Pilate asks the crowd, “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” The crowd answers, “Crucify him!” Pilate publicly proclaims Jesus’ innocence, but “they shouted all the louder, ‘Crucify him!’” (verse 23). Pilate then famously washes his hands, declaring himself to be “innocent” (verse 24) and telling the crowd that Jesus’ death “is your responsibility!” It is a responsibility that the mob accepts, shouting the chilling words, “His blood is on us and on our children!” (verse 25).
Interesting answer. Most folks call that a book of fairly tales . . . but the funny thing is, that book also says that they will be messed with all the time, and one day they will come back from the four corners of the Earth to Israel. That by no means means that that is the reason the Jews deserve Israel. It is not why I would say that they deserve to be there.
Folks who say the Bible refers to the Jews as the 'chosen people' as if that is some sort of exalted position are wrong. The Jews, according to the Bible as I see it, were 'chosen' to be persecuted, killed, and driven out of countries all over the world. It predicted a lot of bad things for the Jews.
And they have all pretty much happened. Some fairy tales, eh?
Tell me: are you this enraged by the outlandish and outright savage behavior of other countries, or just when the Jews are involved? Sure seems like your rage is devoted solely and entirely to the Jewish country. I can’t figure out why, when there are so many worse countries around.
Cheap shot. Childish.
It is not a flattering look.
I said it before and I will say it again: don't conflate the State of Israel with the Jewish religion. They are NOT the same.
Israel the state is a fallible institution, just like every other government. It has all the same warts and pimples as any other, and doesn't get a special pass from legitimate criticism just because there are Jews running things.
Last edited by Hesychios; 06-11-2021 at 07:48 AM..
I'm honestly trying to understand it and currently doing research on the topic because it's truely a unique phenomenon throughout history.
From a religious standpoint it might have to do with the following scene from the Bible:
Pilate asks the crowd, “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called the Messiah?” The crowd answers, “Crucify him!” Pilate publicly proclaims Jesus’ innocence, but “they shouted all the louder, ‘Crucify him!’” (verse 23). Pilate then famously washes his hands, declaring himself to be “innocent” (verse 24) and telling the crowd that Jesus’ death “is your responsibility!” It is a responsibility that the mob accepts, shouting the chilling words, “His blood is on us and on our children!” (verse 25).
You should know that most of the Palestinian Jews converted to Christianity eventually.
By the sixth century that province of the Byzantine empire was majority Christian, with a Patriarch in Jerusalem. One could say then, that it was their ancestors who approved of the persecutions of Jesus. They knew it.
The Jews in the diaspora had nothing to do with that.
Also, there were times when Judaism was very open to converts. I have even read an account where several Christian priests in Gaul converted to Judaism (in the fifth century I think). This kind of thing was happening all the time in history.
The Roman border region along the Rhine attracted Jews among others for settlement, and it was a dynamic region for trade. Very early in it's history many pagan Germanic people living along the Rhine converted to Judaism.
There is a reason Jews from Norway don't look like Jews from Spain or Morocco. There is a reason Golda Meir looked like an old Polish woman and the de Rothschilds look like French aristocrats.
These people's ancestors had nothing to do with the persecution of Christ. They did view the Christianity spreading among them from synagogue to synagogue as a heresy, which from their point of view should be strictly correct. That's not the same as killing the messiah.
Decades of that have not worked out very well. I think everyone can agree it is not working.
Palestinians are not Jordanians, they are two different nationalities. I don't know that it can be forced upon them but if they agree by plebiscite it could possibly work. They could have a dual monarchy, like 'the kingdom of Palestine and Trans-Jordan' or something like that.
Then of course, Israel would have to move it's wall across to their own side of the border and vacate the illegal settlements.
I just realized you had spoken about dual monarchy comment.
Not PRECISELY the same, but King Hussein offered a very similar proposal in 1972. It would have created a federation with a West Bank and Jordan (now), with autonomy except for military/security and foreign affairs (run out of Amman)-providing oversight over the area.
Other Arab countries: no
Palestinians: no - "The people of Palestine alone, and in the necessary atmosphere of freedom, can decide on their own future and the future of their cause" -
Israel: no - "the Knesset has duly noted the Prime Minister's statement of March 16, 1972, regarding the speech made by the King of Jordan on March 11, 1972. The Knesset has determined that the historic right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel is beyond challenge." -
I just realized you had spoken about dual monarchy comment.
Not PRECISELY the same, but King Hussein offered a very similar proposal in 1972. It would have created a federation with a West Bank and Jordan (now), with autonomy except for military/security and foreign affairs (run out of Amman)-providing oversight over the area.
Other Arab countries: no
Palestinians: no - "The people of Palestine alone, and in the necessary atmosphere of freedom, can decide on their own future and the future of their cause" -
Israel: no - "the Knesset has duly noted the Prime Minister's statement of March 16, 1972, regarding the speech made by the King of Jordan on March 11, 1972. The Knesset has determined that the historic right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel is beyond challenge." -
I just realized you had spoken about dual monarchy comment.
Not PRECISELY the same, but King Hussein offered a very similar proposal in 1972. It would have created a federation with a West Bank and Jordan (now), with autonomy except for military/security and foreign affairs (run out of Amman)-providing oversight over the area.
Other Arab countries: no
Palestinians: no - "The people of Palestine alone, and in the necessary atmosphere of freedom, can decide on their own future and the future of their cause" -
Israel: no - "the Knesset has duly noted the Prime Minister's statement of March 16, 1972, regarding the speech made by the King of Jordan on March 11, 1972. The Knesset has determined that the historic right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel is beyond challenge." -
Neither comment is a good look or makes me hopeful there'll ever be an actual agreement.
Also from the Knesset's resolution:
"Israel will continue to be willing to negotiate - without prior conditions from either side - with any of the neighbouring States for the conclusion of a peace treaty."
Hussein declares Jerusalem capital of the Palestine region and that region will consist of the West Bank and any other Palestinian territories which are liberated and whose inhabitants desire to join it. Gaza ? Any land later ocuupied by Palestinians [Israel ?] ?
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