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The reasoning is pretty obvious, and one can basically see that in your post: admitting so many non-Jewish people into the citizenry could eventually open up a situation where most of the citizens are non-Jewish. This is especially likely because of the low birth rate among Jewish Israelis and a higher birth rate among Palestinians.
Ethnic Cleansing is not a moral option, although that seems to be in fact what is happening in slo-mo right before our eyes.
I know Palestinian Christians (yes, there is such a thing, there used to be a lot of them) who migrated to the USA, and the general consensus is Israeli policies drove them to leave for happier places. The Israeli government in practice makes it very hard for Palestinians and those who could get out very often do so.
The only practical solution is a two state outcome, Israel can have it's own Lesotho type rump state to corral the non-Jews in. But there is STILL a strong political element within Israel which opposes that and this is why the Jewish Israeli settlements continue in the West Bank, with government abetting. That faction simply does not want a little rump state of non-Jews in the highlands, they want the Palestinians gone and forgotten. Horrible to contemplate really.
Israel tried that. The antisemitic Arabs turned it down. Hamas wants Israel run into the sea completely. It is the Hamas-led Arabs that want the Jew gone and forgotten. Horrible to contemplate, really.
And your comment about “Israel corralling non-Jews into a rump state” really reveals your targeted hostility toward the Jewish State. What Arabs, and Europeans, have done to Jews is far, far worse.
(The more I read about how brainwashed liberals are against Israel, the more I increase my donations to help support her. I’m planning to make a substantial one in a couple of weeks, in honor of my father’s 2nd yartzheit.)
But am I right?
Admitting all of those non-Jews into Israel as citizens would eventually lead to a majority non-Jewish state.
So that won't work for you.
Israel can't kill them off, and Israel can't drive them all out of the West Bank now can they? ... not without a very good excuse. The days of Joshua massacring the Canaanites are over. Otherwise we would be seeing Netanyahu before the international courts like Ratko Mladić was. Can't have that now can we?
So what are the options left?
-1- Squeeze the Palestinians into the smallest possible space, make them unhappy and hope they leave. Fence them in, typecast them, treat them like inferiors and bully them around. Make them excruciatingly miserable.
Admitting all of those non-Jews into Israel as citizens would eventually lead to a majority non-Jewish state.
So that won't work for you.
Israel can't kill them off, and Israel can't drive them all out of the West Bank now can they? ... not without a very good excuse. Otherwise we would be seeing Netanyahu before the international courts like Ratko Mladić was. Can't have that now can we?
So what are the options left?
-1- Squeeze the Palestinians into the smallest possible space, make them unhappy and hope they leave. Fence them in, typecast them, treat them like inferiors and bully them around. Make them excruciatingly miserable.
-2- ... there is no option 2. see option 1
Or maintain the status quo.
Or have Jordan and other countries assume control of those territories as they once did. Jordan has a peace agreement with Israel, but I question whether Jordan would actually want to take on that headache.
Admitting all of those non-Jews into Israel as citizens would eventually lead to a majority non-Jewish state.
So that won't work for you.
Israel can't kill them off, and Israel can't drive them all out of the West Bank now can they? ... not without a very good excuse. The days of Joshua massacring the Canaanites are over. Otherwise we would be seeing Netanyahu before the international courts like Ratko Mladić was. Can't have that now can we?
So what are the options left?
-1- Squeeze the Palestinians into the smallest possible space, make them unhappy and hope they leave. Fence them in, typecast them, treat them like inferiors and bully them around. Make them excruciatingly miserable.
-2- ... there is no option 2. see option 1
So you’re saying there is only one option, which based on your description shows a lot of hostility toward Jews, along with your anti-Israel bias. I notice you said nothing about how the Palestinians would continue to lob rockets and kill themselves as many Jews as they possibly could.
Why not just have Jordan resettle them into their country? They’re actually Jordanians. Let Israel keep the land it won when the antisemites attacked in ‘67. Their total land mass would still be a minute percentage of all the land the big enemy Arab countries have.
Why not that solution? Certainly they would be happier in Jordan than in, to use your words, the smallest space possible where the Jews would bully them around and treat them like inferiors.
So you’re saying there is only one option, which based on your description shows a lot of hostility toward Jews, along with your anti-Israel bias. I notice you said nothing about how the Palestinians would continue to lob rockets and kill themselves as many Jews as they possibly could.
Why not just have Jordan resettle them into their country? They’re actually Jordanians. Let Israel keep the land it won when the antisemites attacked in ‘67. Their total land mass would still be a minute percentage of all the land the big enemy Arab countries have.
Why not that solution? Certainly they would be happier in Jordan than in, to use your words, the smallest space possible where the Jews would bully them around and treat them like inferiors.
Very, very interesting.
So the justification is, if you win the land, it's yours?
And you did prove that an antisemite would be someone who is critical of "Israel THE LAND", and not Jews that is A GROUP OF HUMANS?
Decades of that have not worked out very well. I think everyone can agree it is not working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Or have Jordan and other countries assume control of those territories as they once did. Jordan has a peace agreement with Israel, but I question whether Jordan would actually want to take on that headache.
Palestinians are not Jordanians, they are two different nationalities. I don't know that it can be forced upon them but if they agree by plebiscite it could possibly work. They could have a dual monarchy, like 'the kingdom of Palestine and Trans-Jordan' or something like that.
Then of course, Israel would have to move it's wall across to their own side of the border and vacate the illegal settlements.
What is the reason jews were expelled from more than a hundred countries? This is unprecedented in history. Just asking.
You are a new member. Welcome aboard!
I don't know in what spirit that question is asked but a good, albeit slow read is a book called Anti-Judaism: The Western Tradition by David Nirenberg that traces Jew-hatred from Pharaoh's time to the present.
Decades of that have not worked out very well. I think everyone can agree it is not working.
You think that a Palestinian state would actually work? It's destined to fail as long as the Palestinians continue to embrace Hamas and other terrorist causes. At least now, Palestinians in the West Bank can claim some semblance of normalcy, even if they face greater travel restrictions and the like.
And even if the Palestinians rejected Hamas one day, Palestinians aren't going to build a prosperous society off of olive and date trees. An independent Palestinian society would still have tremendous problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios
Palestinians are not Jordanians, they are two different nationalities. I don't know that it can be forced upon them but if they agree by plebiscite it could possibly work. They could have a dual monarchy, like 'the kingdom of Palestine and Trans-Jordan' or something like that.
Then of course, Israel would have to move it's wall across to their own side of the border and vacate the illegal settlements.
Palestinians can be whatever nationality they want to be. And Palestinians in the West Bank once were Jordanians by nationality after Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950. Funny, you didn't hear any cries about Jordan denying the Palestinian their rights (the reason for that is clear I argue).
You think that a Palestinian state would actually work? It's destined to fail as long as the Palestinians continue to embrace Hamas and other terrorist causes. At least now, Palestinians in the West Bank can claim some semblance of normalcy, even if they face greater travel restrictions and the like.
And even if the Palestinians rejected Hamas one day, Palestinians aren't going to build a prosperous society off of olive and date trees. An independent Palestinian society would still have tremendous problems.
Palestinians can be whatever nationality they want to be. And Palestinians in the West Bank once were Jordanians by nationality after Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950. Funny, you didn't hear any cries about Jordan denying the Palestinian their rights (the reason for that is clear I argue).
...because they were granted citizenship, giving them the same rights as any Jordanian?
...because they were granted citizenship, giving them the same rights as any Jordanian?
From what I'm reading, yes. But that didn't last post Jordan losing control of the West Bank after their failed effort to wage war against Israel in a wicked desire to bring about another Holocaust.
You think that a Palestinian state would actually work? It's destined to fail as long as the Palestinians continue to embrace Hamas and other terrorist causes. At least now, Palestinians in the West Bank can claim some semblance of normalcy, even if they face greater travel restrictions and the like.
And even if the Palestinians rejected Hamas one day, Palestinians aren't going to build a prosperous society off of olive and date trees. An independent Palestinian society would still have tremendous problems.
I am not suggesting it would be a walk in the park. It should be able to work with effort.
The world has seen this before. India achieving independence for example, and the separation of Pakistan from it. It wasn't easy going. Look at Sudan, or Nigeria, other countries made up of borders drawn up by outsiders. There are crummy examples everywhere, and the creation of Israel is another one of those.
The UN tried to solve a problem by separating Israel from the rest of the Palestinian mandate, It didn't work out very well. Honestly, no one should have expected it to work.
None of my posts here have discussed Gaza, Israel does not occupy it in the same manner as they occupy the West Bank. Hamas controls Gaza. Maybe Egypt can control it, but I think Israel never will.
I thought the idea of Israel annexing the West Bank and giving citizenship was a great conversation starter. It's not realistic because Israel simply doesn't want those people, it wants them gone. That is simply because too many non-Jews would dilute the Jewish character of the country. An atheist with Jewish grandparents from far away is valued over a practicing Muslim or Christian whose grandparents originally lived there. This is simply an exercise in mathematics. Atheist totally secular and westernized Jews somehow impart the 'character' of Judaism on the country, they can be counted.
But annexing the West Bank and giving the inhabitants citizenship would probably work if they were willing to try, like the USA annexing Hawaii or China annexing Tibet. These are terrible examples of injustice in history but what the hell, what option is any better when it comes to Israel in Palestine?
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident
Palestinians can be whatever nationality they want to be. And Palestinians in the West Bank once were Jordanians by nationality after Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950. Funny, you didn't hear any cries about Jordan denying the Palestinian their rights (the reason for that is clear I argue).
Interesting you should say that. So can Israelis.
I saw a statement from Golda Meir about how she carried a Palestinian passport for years. “I'm a Palestinian. From '21 until '48 I carried a Palestinian passport.” Palestine is a place name.
We are 'Americans' because we live in 'America', another place name.
The aboriginal inhabitants can always call themselves by another name but really they are the people who have lived there. They are the descendants of the Christian and Jewish Byzantine inhabitants of that place, who were the descendants of the Jews and Samarians who lived there earlier. They are Hebrews from the land of Canaan.
It is easy to dismiss them, but unwise to do so.
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