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When the chance came to move humanity towards a higher level of freedom, Washington fought for freedom. Lee fought against it.
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You're good with honoring white supremacists as long as they did other things you liked? That's what you're saying now?
You decide to honor a man or not on the balance of his achievements. I hold Churchill in deep respect, that doesn't mean I honor alcoholics as a category, even though he was one. And I don't honor slave owners as a category, even though Washington was one.
I wasn't attempting to refute that a majority favor it. I'm asking why the % isn't higher.
and for the umpteenth time, I favor removal of Confederate general and officials statues from US government locations.
Well, this is where I was coming from. When you asked why the percentage was "only 61%", I took that as trying to say "most Blacks don't care". I never thought why is wasn't higher. I just consider that a majority are in favor of removing Confederate statues.
The link I posted was to bring a point home. Someone else said "the locals won't be happy about Confederate statues being removed". I had to ask "which locals?". I asked for this reason. There are more African-Americans in the South than any other U.S. region. A majority of African-Americans are Southerners, and a majority are okay with removing Confederate statues.
1. That wasn't their only reason
2. Maybe in the minds of certain pink haired wokes today
1) Slavery was the biggest reason.
2) It's isn't just "pink haired woke" who think Confederates don't deserve to be honored. A majority of African-Americans feel that Confederates don't deserve to be honored. African-Americans are the most likely to have negative views of the Confederate flag and Confederate monuments. I've said this so many times. Rather than claim "Blacks are brainwashed", you should sit down and actually ask yourself why so many African-Americans view the Confederate flag/Confederate monuments negatively, despite the majority of them being Southerners.
Pretty much was, actually. They were kind enough to write it down.
You must not have studied much.
Here's a lot of what Georgia "wrote down" outside of slavery:
The material prosperity of the North was greatly dependent on the Federal Government; that of the South not at all. In the first years of the Republic the navigating, commercial, and manufacturing interests of the North began to seek profit and aggrandizement at the expense of the agricultural interests. Even the owners of fishing smacks sought and obtained bounties for pursuing their own business (which yet continue), and $500,000 is now paid them annually out of the Treasury. The navigating interests begged for protection against foreign shipbuilders and against competition in the coasting trade. Congress granted both requests, and by prohibitory acts gave an absolute monopoly of this business to each of their interests, which they enjoy without diminution to this day. Not content with these great and unjust advantages, they have sought to throw the legitimate burden of their business as much as possible upon the public; they have succeeded in throwing the cost of light-houses, buoys, and the maintenance of their seamen upon the Treasury, and the Government now pays above $2,000,000 annually for the support of these objects. Theses interests, in connection with the commercial and manufacturing classes, have also succeeded, by means of subventions to mail steamers and the reduction in postage, in relieving their business from the payment of about $7,000,000 annually, throwing it upon the public Treasury under the name of postal deficiency. The manufacturing interests entered into the same struggle early, and has clamored steadily for Government bounties and special favors. This interest was confined mainly to the Eastern and Middle non-slave-holding States. Wielding these great States it held great power and influence, and its demands were in full proportion to its power. The manufacturers and miners wisely based their demands upon special facts and reasons rather than upon general principles, and thereby mollified much of the opposition of the opposing interest. They pleaded in their favor the infancy of their business in this country, the scarcity of labor and capital, the hostile legislation of other countries toward them, the great necessity of their fabrics in the time of war, and the necessity of high duties to pay the debt incurred in our war for independence. These reasons prevailed, and they received for many years enormous bounties by the general acquiescence of the whole country.
How about Texas:
The Federal Government, while but partially under the control of these our unnatural and sectional enemies, has for years almost entirely failed to protect the lives and property of the people of Texas against the Indian savages on our border, and more recently against the murderous forays of banditti from the neighboring territory of Mexico; and when our State government has expended large amounts for such purpose, the Federal Government has refuse reimbursement therefor, thus rendering our condition more insecure and harassing than it was during the existence of the Republic of Texas.
Debates concerning the true causes of the Civil War are unlikely to cease. Historians often cherry-pick evidence that supports preconceived notions while ignoring large quantities of contradictory material. When that impulse is fueled by a fervent desire to find reconciliation and consensus, as was the case after the Civil War, the work of historians becomes especially murky. Primary sources such as the Declarations of Causes are essential to a balanced study of history.
How about South Carolina:
And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.
In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, "that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do."
They further solemnly declared that whenever any "form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government." Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies "are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."
In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments-- Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article "that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled."
Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms: "ARTICLE 1-- His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof."
Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.
Well, this is where I was coming from. When you asked why the percentage was "only 61%", I took that as trying to say "most Blacks don't care". I never thought why is wasn't higher. I just consider that a majority are in favor of removing Confederate statues.
The link I posted was to bring a point home. Someone else said "the locals won't be happy about Confederate statues being removed". I had to ask "which locals?". I asked for this reason. There are more African-Americans in the South than any other U.S. region. A majority of African-Americans are Southerners, and a majority are okay with removing Confederate statues.
wouldn't we expect the vast vast majority of Blacks polled to favor removal? Maybe it's just the Blacks who do or have lived in the South that feel that way; that would make some more sense I guess.
as to "the locals", well, I suppose the Blacks in these little towns might need to be the majority of the population, or combined with progressives represent a majority.
Of course, isn't it a good thing that R Governor of TN, who had a different opinion when elected, has now come around to agree on the Forrest statue in the Capitol building?
As usual, the poorly informed left has found a new reason to be outraged. Now they are "outraged" that certain Confederate Generals (TRAITORS!, they wail) have their likeness in the capitol.
Gen Joe Wheeler is one such case. He served in the Confederacy, served time in prison, became a US representative from the state of Alabama, then served time in the US Army as a Brigadier General and led battles during both the Spanish America and Philippine-America wars under T Roosevelt. He died in New York in 1906 and is buried in Arlington.
Maybe I should not have said that last part. The Left - the forever outraged left - will want him dug up and discarded.
MAGA - We don't care who. Just vote against Democrats.
When the chance came to move humanity towards a higher level of freedom, Washington fought for freedom. Lee fought against it.
You decide to honor a man or not on the balance of his achievements. I hold Churchill in deep respect, that doesn't mean I honor alcoholics as a category, even though he was one. And I don't honor slave owners as a category, even though Washington was one.
Its called nuance.
So when Washington presided over the constitutional convention codifying slaves as 3/5ths of a person after the Revolution, what was he doing there?
Oh, I'm fairly comfortable. I'm not treating this as a scholarly debate, dear Lord.
They called themselves the slave states, they modified their constitution for the purpose of maintaining slavery, and their vice president called the black man's servitude the cornerstone of their government. I'm happy with my assessment.
Sure, they aired every other grievance they could think of. And - in fairness - some of them were decidedly half-hearted and seem to have joined mostly in order to be on the winning side. Meh.
Anyway, they did nothing that all that elevates their leaders to the stature where they deserve to be in a place of honor.
As usual, the poorly informed left has found a new reason to be outraged. Now they are "outraged" that certain Confederate Generals (TRAITORS!, they wail) have their likeness in the capitol.
Gen Joe Wheeler is one such case. He served in the Confederacy, served time in prison, became a US representative from the state of Alabama, then served time in the US Army as a Brigadier General and led battles during both the Spanish America and Philippine-America wars under T Roosevelt. He died in New York in 1906 and is buried in Arlington.
Maybe I should not have said that last part. The Left - the forever outraged left - will want him dug up and discarded.
MAGA - We don't care who. Just vote against Democrats.
Oh snap. There are 482 Confederates buried there.
The book burners are going to explode! They'd better get the shovels out. Surely we can't "honor" them at Arlington?
Never mind that many of them turned around and took up common cause with the North once again after the war. Never mind the respect that both sides had for one another after it was all over.
Just armchair "CANCEL CULTURE" in 2021 from people who have never fought for anything in their lives.
So when Washington presided over the constitutional convention codifying slaves as 3/5ths of a person after the Revolution, what was he doing there?
Compromising. Choosing between giving up the idea of independence completely or giving the slave states what they wanted to come on board. You'll notice that abolishing slavery wasn't one of the options open to him at the time.
Is it me, or is it weird that the pro-confederates are suddenly going all-out in attacking Washington?
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