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Old 07-08-2021, 11:14 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,020,664 times
Reputation: 8567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
So you don't care about slavery? You're going on record with that, right? You'd better inform the other book burners then.

Your beef is simply that they tried to secede, right?
Textbook whataboutism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Did the person we're honoring with a statue add or detract from humanity progressing towards freedom?

Washington, for all his flaws: Added.

Lee, for whatever good traits he might have had: Subtracted.
Lee was a brilliant general and until the civil war served the US well.

However; end of the day he betrayed the US and took up arms. He deserves no honors.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:17 AM
 
46,964 posts, read 26,005,972 times
Reputation: 29454
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
What are your thoughts on what lincoln said? That Whites are naturally the superior race? You seem to be turning a blind eye to things that almost everyone said at the time.
He was wrong in that respect. Does it outweigh his other achievements? No, it doesn't.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,793 posts, read 5,665,751 times
Reputation: 5661
i think the only and simple resolution is to stop honoring men/women with statues. We are all flawed and eventually some do-gooder will find reason to NOT honor someone.. Tear them all down.. which they will eventually... People are stupid!
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:18 AM
 
8,342 posts, read 2,967,739 times
Reputation: 7900
I see monuments and flags that I don’t like. So what. Ignore them. Ignore my confederate battle flag. It’s so easy.

Those whining about all things confederate now didn’t give a hoot about them 5 years ago. Welcome to the frenzy bandwagon.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Southeast US
8,609 posts, read 2,310,456 times
Reputation: 2114
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
If I had to guess it’s people don’t know much about it anymore. I don’t remember school focusing much on the civil war.
the topic came from this link that GM shared. It's a survey from 2020.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/poli...-confederate-s

what do the "remove the statues" folks think about this?

https://www.ncpedia.org/monument/con...monument-state

it shows rank and file soldiers, with this inscription:

Front: TO OUR / CONFEDERATE / DEAD
Rear, on base: FIRST AT / BETHEL / LAST AT / APPOMATTOX / 1861. 1865.

maybe the second part "lionizes" them. The first is surely just a memorial to the dead.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
10,244 posts, read 16,379,554 times
Reputation: 5309
Lee could have had a heart of gold for all I care. This doesn’t change the fact that he fought for an undignified and traitorous cause (the Confederacy) and this and anything else related to the Confederacy is not something that deserves to be honored in our public spaces.

Once the above statement has been accepted we can proceed with removal of confederate monuments. For the nostalgic folks let’s put them into a nice curated museum for them to enjoy for many years into the future.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:24 AM
 
8,943 posts, read 2,967,178 times
Reputation: 5168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Did the person we're honoring with a statue add or detract from humanity progressing towards freedom?

Washington, for all his flaws: Added.

Lee, for whatever good traits he might have had: Subtracted.

And yes, that's oversimplified, but for this class, I'm about to break out the crayons.
Ahhhhh. So what about Columbus then?

So it's NOT slavery at all.

Now it's a nebulous "So and so contributed net positives to society or did not."

WOW. That sounds really subjective.

The BS is getting deeper in here! All I've ever heard about the Confederate statues is "slavery."
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:26 AM
 
8,943 posts, read 2,967,178 times
Reputation: 5168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feltdesigner View Post
that is because for some folks if they are truly honest about slavery they will say they dont think it was that bad since it was protected by “laws” or they know its so cruel to admit it would make them feel guilty.

No one should feel guilty for slavery today.. but damn, is it really that hard to say it was an ugly stain our our history and we shouldn’t praise those who were willing to die to defend it.
But we still should honor those that partook in it but never had to fight for it.

Liberal logic.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:29 AM
 
9,639 posts, read 6,020,664 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyebee Teepee View Post
the topic came from this link that GM shared. It's a survey from 2020.

https://today.yougov.com/topics/poli...-confederate-s

what do the "remove the statues" folks think about this?

https://www.ncpedia.org/monument/con...monument-state

it shows rank and file soldiers, with this inscription:

Front: TO OUR / CONFEDERATE / DEAD
Rear, on base: FIRST AT / BETHEL / LAST AT / APPOMATTOX / 1861. 1865.

maybe the second part "lionizes" them. The first is surely just a memorial to the dead.
This whole southern pride thing is just ignorance.

The southern states back then and even to this day are the centers of poverty and poor education in this country. What is there to be proud of?

The second link I’m less opinionated about the non-named statues representing the many dead average soldier. There’s a difference between a memorial and a monument. Like most wars; they were the peasants used as cannon fodder for the rich landowning slave masters. 400,000 of them were conscripted and essentially given little choice.

The generals however; don’t fit that category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
Lee could have had a heart of gold for all I care. This doesn’t change the fact that he fought for an undignified and traitorous cause (the Confederacy) and this and anything else related to the Confederacy is not something that deserves to be honored in our public spaces.

Once the above statement has been accepted we can proceed with removal of confederate monuments. For the nostalgic folks let’s put them into a nice curated museum for them to enjoy for many years into the future.
Ironically Lee would totally agree with you. He was against any monuments for the confederacy to help with healing.
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Old 07-08-2021, 11:30 AM
 
73,032 posts, read 62,646,469 times
Reputation: 21938
Quote:
Originally Posted by paracord View Post
Did GW own slaves? Did he say slaves were 3/5ths of a person?

Were the confederates fighting to keep slaves and the things the founders established?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

You're inconsistent.
Actually, it's recognizing the differences. George Washington may have owned slaves at one point. However, he was willing to let slavery go.

https://www.mountvernon.org/library/...ged%20to%20him.

This was a letter George Washington wrote to his friend Robert Morris.

Quote:
"I hope it will not be conceived from these observations, that it is my wish to hold the unhappy people, who are the subject of this letter, in slavery. I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it; but there is only one proper and effectual mode by which it can be accomplished, and that is by Legislative authority; and this, as far as my suffrage will go, shall never be wanting."
The Confederates, on the other hand, were not.
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