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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.42%
No 246 51.04%
Unsure 46 9.54%
Voters: 482. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-19-2022, 02:53 PM
 
34,279 posts, read 19,375,883 times
Reputation: 17261

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Usual disclaimer-This is not my area of expertise, if someone who actually knows this stuff says im wrong-they're probably right and you should listen to them.

The major strikes today have the Russians trying out all sorts of explanations. But in the last day or two they've had huge losses in ammunition depots, command and control, and they're pushing on Russian air-defenses.

Ukraine Special forces. Possible, but the timing and extent of it indicate a level of coordination and scope thats challenging in the extreme.

ATACMS. ballistic detection would mean that the Russians would know. Still possible though. They could just be hiding it from their troops while they try and figure out what to do.

ER-GMLRS. These would be straight from production line to battle if true, and possibly produced on a crash basis. Very unlikely. Also the Russians would know.

Modified Neptune air dropped cruise via Su-24 bombers. Actually possible, but unlikely. They were designed as a truck launched anti-ship missile. And they could have simply reloaded their launcher and used it in that role with plenty of good targets. It sounds like they don't have the missiles.

Black projects. Entirely possible. The US has sent some things with pretty vague descriptions.

The cause may be unclear, but the result isnt.
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:37 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,578 posts, read 17,293,027 times
Reputation: 37339
I'm baffled; don't have much of an idea how the Crimea and Belarus explosions are being pulled off. Can't wait to see the movie, though.


If elected, Trump would not offer near as much support for Ukraine. At least I don't think so.
Would it matter?........ At that point they would be three years into the war. I would think Ukraine would have enough materiel to do the job or fail, and the result of the war would be determined.
But maybe not.
What do you think?... Trump elected/some other Republican elected. Think things will change much?
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,865 posts, read 2,674,972 times
Reputation: 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I'm baffled; don't have much of an idea how the Crimea and Belarus explosions are being pulled off. Can't wait to see the movie, though.


If elected, Trump would not offer near as much support for Ukraine. At least I don't think so.
Would it matter?........ At that point they would be three years into the war. I would think Ukraine would have enough materiel to do the job or fail, and the result of the war would be determined.
But maybe not.
What do you think?... Trump elected/some other Republican elected. Think things will change much?
Trump tried to blackmail Ukraine for dirt on Biden in exchange for military assistance...and Trump was also just a little to cozy to Putin for my own personal taste..
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,865 posts, read 2,674,972 times
Reputation: 7721
Deny's update for today 8/19...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYjXXVF841U
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Canada
7,681 posts, read 5,530,949 times
Reputation: 8817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I'm baffled; don't have much of an idea how the Crimea and Belarus explosions are being pulled off. Can't wait to see the movie, though.


If elected, Trump would not offer near as much support for Ukraine. At least I don't think so.
Would it matter?........ At that point they would be three years into the war. I would think Ukraine would have enough materiel to do the job or fail, and the result of the war would be determined.
But maybe not.
What do you think?... Trump elected/some other Republican elected. Think things will change much?
2025 is too far in the future to predict. Too many variables. Putin’s health is one. Status of Taiwan is another. Ability of Russia to replace EU oil and gas revenues is a third.
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:55 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,786,454 times
Reputation: 10871
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I'm baffled; don't have much of an idea how the Crimea and Belarus explosions are being pulled off. Can't wait to see the movie, though.


If elected, Trump would not offer near as much support for Ukraine. At least I don't think so.
Would it matter?........ At that point they would be three years into the war. I would think Ukraine would have enough materiel to do the job or fail, and the result of the war would be determined.
But maybe not.
What do you think?... Trump elected/some other Republican elected. Think things will change much?
The problem with our political system is the new administration, if they are from the opposing party, will try to cancel what the previous government did. If Trump or another Republican is elected in 2024, will they stop supporting Ukraine? That is possible but highly unlikely because too much is at stake for the US to change course.
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:23 PM
 
21,430 posts, read 7,459,324 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
The problem with our political system is the new administration, if they are from the opposing party, will try to cancel what the previous government did. If Trump or another Republican is elected in 2024, will they stop supporting Ukraine? That is possible but highly unlikely because too much is at stake for the US to change course.
Before 2016 Republicans had a strong affinity for Ukraine, that had actually written a plank into the party platform about it.

Then of course, Trump got the nomination, and his team on the platform committee forced the party to drop that plank completely.

There is still a strong underlying support for Ukraine among Republicans, and they know Ukraine has been victimized by Russia. Most also know that the very concept of democracy and a free republic hangs in the balance with this event. This is not rocket science, anyone can see it.

I think that if someone like DeSantis or Cruz or Haley won the presidency we would continue to support Ukraine, but Trump might not want to and he would probably have to be forced through overrides from the full Congress.
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Old 08-19-2022, 04:38 PM
 
8,943 posts, read 11,786,454 times
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Good interview.

Ex-generals signed letter to Biden: not providing Ukraine with enough weapons amounts to turning victory into defeat.

General Keane: defeating Russia in Ukraine is how we stop WWIII. Russia has told the world that they won't stop with Ukraine, so we must stop them in Ukraine.

Also Keane: if we had given Ukraine weapons before the war, it might have been enough to deter Russia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UkxPljdU6M
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,865 posts, read 2,674,972 times
Reputation: 7721
General Jack Keane for President!!!....thanks for posting that video..I was looking for him today and couldn't find this latest one he has done..

I don't understand why Biden won't give Ukraine more of the weapons they need right now..I mean we have appropriated 50 billion dollars for them..give it up..the fact that he hasn't or won't and the debacle of the Afghan withdrawal are 2 reasons I won't be voting for Biden in 24...and no I won't be voting for Trump either..
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Old 08-19-2022, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Elysium
12,388 posts, read 8,155,775 times
Reputation: 9199
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Usual disclaimer-This is not my area of expertise, if someone who actually knows this stuff says im wrong-they're probably right and you should listen to them.

The major strikes today have the Russians trying out all sorts of explanations. But in the last day or two they've had huge losses in ammunition depots, command and control, and they're pushing on Russian air-defenses.

Ukraine Special forces. Possible, but the timing and extent of it indicate a level of coordination and scope thats challenging in the extreme.

.
Well they have had 8 years to prepare
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