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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 194 39.43%
No 251 51.02%
Unsure 47 9.55%
Voters: 492. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-14-2022, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,231,712 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Sort of like an extortionist seeking payment for "protection." Should the West just give up, surrender?
You're asking a pointless question. America wanted the war. That was the whole point. You don't think this started in February do you?

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

We're going to fight this war to the last Ukrainian, or to nuclear war. There can be no surrender.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeWHviwLMy8
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:04 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,644 posts, read 17,385,611 times
Reputation: 37412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
You're asking a pointless question. America wanted the war. That was the whole point. You don't think this started in February do you?

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html

We're going to fight this war to the last Ukrainian, or to nuclear war. There can be no surrender.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeWHviwLMy8
Did you hear John McCain died, and Lindsay Graham did not get the nomination for President?
"We" are not fighting in Ukraine. We sent 1/3000 of our yearly budget, though. Probably will next year, too.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:05 PM
 
78,664 posts, read 60,867,104 times
Reputation: 49974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Do you think it is good diplomacy though? Who is the more reliable partner? America or Russia?

Reminds me of what Kissinger said... "To be an enemy of America can be dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal."
Here is the whole quote.

Quote:
Word should be gotten to Nixon that if Thieu meets the same fate as Diem, the word will go out to the nations of the world that it may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.
It was a warning from Kissinger about a diplomatic situation and how IF it went a certain way how it would look to other countries.

Just look at your statement from above, "Who is a more reliable partner? America"
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,231,712 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
"We" are not fighting in Ukraine. We sent 1/3000 of our yearly budget, though. Probably will next year, too.
Ukraine wouldn't last five minutes without American support. We're not even selling them weapons, we're giving them weapons, and money. Why do you think we're doing that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Just look at your statement from above, "Who is a more reliable partner? America"
Didn't Thieu meet the same fate as Diem? Is that the purpose of the wink?
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:24 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 942,752 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrimDin View Post
"Why have NATO?"

*looks at Ukraine*

Ya, that's why...
I really think that we should have dismantled NATO after the fall of the USSR and dissolution of the Warsaw Pact.

In the end of the day, NATO is just a bureaucratic organization where countries profess they would come to each other's aid if attacked.

We never needed NATO to defend Ukraine. I mean, if we could have started lobbing nukes in February if we wanted.

And Ukraine being in NATO is no guarantee we will defend it if Russia attacks it. Of course we will say that we will, but as the saying goes: "where the rubber meets the road."

But you cannot ignore that NATO is a military alliance intended to check Russia and only Russia. It exists for that reason, and that reason alone. For us to push countries like Ukraine to join NATO, even organize a coup to get rid of a pro-Moscow statesmen, is highly aggressive and provocative response.

Russia cannot sit by and just let that happen. It has a duty to its citizens to make sure when Putin dies, they don't have any good options. Life is like chess, don't wait for your king to be trapped and within 1-2 moves of a checkmate.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:29 PM
 
1,813 posts, read 2,233,632 times
Reputation: 2466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I hate to break it to you but Russia is not the Soviet Union. Stalin wasn't Russian. I wouldn't really consider Lenin Russian. The Bolsheviks in general weren't exactly Russian. Modern Russia is controlled by a bunch of oligarchs that came after Russian state assets were privatized.

As for Germany and Japan. We occupied both countries, completely disarmed them, and effectively prevented them from rearming themselves. We also wrote their Constitutions, and in the case of Germany, controlled their media and education system to "denazify" them. Both countries are more-or-less occupied to this day.

Germany hates us. It's why we've been spying on the Germans for decades, even hacking into Angela Merkels phone. Then Joe Biden said he would blow up Nord Stream. Germany is basically a slave to America, and America is killing it. I don't think Japan likes us much either. They keep threatening to kick us out because American servicemen can't stop raping Japanese women. I'm sure we're twisting their arms in some way.
No they don't, this is made up.

Quote:
More than 70% of Germans view their country's relationship with the United States as positive, a marked increase compared with a year ago, according to a new survey carried out by the Kantar research institute on behalf of the Körber Foundation.

With Joe Biden in the White House, 71% of Germans see relations between the countries as "good" or "very good,"
https://www.dw.com/en/germans-more-o...vey/a-59900963
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:33 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 942,752 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
If you were to go around Moscow and ask the average Russian if they like America, you'd get overwhelmingly positive responses until recently, and maybe even recently.

People =/= government, though I'm not sure I actually agree with Redshadow on Germany 'hating' America, more like cautious and pragmatic alliance. That's a story for another day.

Bottom line: average person on the street [and judging by the posts in this thread] don't have very political nuanced viewpoints. And tend to see the world with childlike naivety.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:37 PM
 
1,813 posts, read 2,233,632 times
Reputation: 2466
Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
If you were to go around Moscow and ask the average Russian if they like America, you'd get overwhelmingly positive responses until recently, and maybe even recently.

People =/= government, though I'm not sure I actually agree with Redshadow on Germany 'hating' America, more like cautious and pragmatic alliance. That's a story for another day.

Bottom line: average person on the street [and judging by the posts in this thread] don't have very political nuanced viewpoints. And tend to see the world with childlike naivety.
Your version of "political nuanced viewpoints" is Russian propaganda and has no basis in reality.

For example, continuing to claim an agreement on German unification included an agreement on not expanding NATO long after the actual signed and ratified treaty has posted, and that agreement doesn't even mention NATO.

Pure gaslighting.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:41 PM
 
3,113 posts, read 942,752 times
Reputation: 1177
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
Your version of "political nuanced viewpoints" is Russian propaganda and has no basis in reality.
How do you know, Swake? Honest question. You consume media, do you trust the media to tell you the truth or even get it right themselves?

What leads you to believe your grasp of reality is better than mine, besides Western media as sources. I look forward to a cogent response.
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Old 10-14-2022, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,231,712 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by swake View Post
No they don't, this is made up.
I'm not exactly sure what the poll is supposed to measure. It says it was 18% the previous year. Does that mean they hated us the previous year?

The question was just asking whether the relationship is strained in any way. It would be interesting to see a poll after we blew up Nord Stream and they're about to freeze and lose their jobs.
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