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Yep, He was/is a god like person to Democrats. They seem to ignore the fact that Obama Care was a lie, He invaded 3 Muslim countries that are still in various states of war to this day, Almost 2000 American Soldiers lost their lives during his 100,000 troop increase in Afghanistan, and he reigned and was asleep at the wheel while ISIS{ISIL) took over large chunks of Iraq and Syria.
Obamacare was a lie? That's interesting. Both of my sons, ages 20 and 23, have health insurance today for one reason only...Obamacare. No, they are not on the "marketplace" (I get complaints about that, but what people don't seem to understand is it was more than that plus a mandate)... They are covered on my employer health insurance plan until age 26, which was impossible before. I was kicked off my parents' health insurance at age 18 because back then, no ACA. This gives them a little more time to find some kind of stable work that might actually provide them with insurance.
There were a lot of flaws to the ACA and a lot of things that Obama/Biden WANTED done with it that couldn't get through Congress. But it's made a huge difference in a lot of people's lives, even if they don't realize it.
But speaking of lies, Trump and the right swore they were going to dismantle it and get rid of it. All they did was get rid of the mandate that cost you a tax penalty for being uninsured, they hardly dismantled the ACA.
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Originally Posted by oceangaia
Go to the doctor, get your health care, then pay for it. Just like you go to the restaurant, get your food, then pay for it. Or go to the department store, get your clothes, then pay for it.
First step in reducing health care costs is to block illegal immigrants at the border.
Immigrations policy, tax policy, foreign policy, energy policy, etc.
What cracks me up about this, is that immigrants aren't coming here for health care, which (I guess?) seems to be what you are implying. Americans cross into Mexico for health care. I've known friends who have done so. Medical and dental procedures are far less expensive there and you can find perfectly qualified doctors to do it. Know a lady when went on a resort vacation and got breast implants down there lol!
Somebody upthread mentioned the possibility of Mark Cuban running maybe third party or something, though and maybe that would be pretty cool. He's actually trying to help!
There's a reason he won. It wasn't because of some 'religious like following'.
I agree that it was not a "religious like following" that got him the win, although it does in fact exist. No, he got the win for a couple of reasons. You describe one of them. Americans have had it increasingly pounded into our brains for decades how evil, corrupt, dangerous, or at least useless, the "establishment" is...and Trump represented something different. Not a "career politician." Someone from outside of the machine.
The other reason, is that the media, particularly the MSM that the left watches, blasted non stop messaging that Hillary had it in the bag. That there was no way Trump was going to win. So tons of people who didn't love Hillary (and it's far more normal for Americans to be lukewarm at best about our Prezzie candidates) felt that it would be "safe" to go ahead and vote third party, or that it would be fine if they did not bother to vote, since Trump was never gonna win. The news said so.
Whoops.
I voted for Hill-dawg, not because I was a fan (as I put it, I held my nose) but because I was, and always WILL be, very "nope" about Trump. I did not take for granted that other people would get me the result I wanted, if I put in zero effort myself. And you may feel as free as ya like, to make a joke about how much of an oddity that might make me among Democrats, alright? The humor is not lost on me. I have voted conservative myself, in the past.
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If all of those people that you're still looking down on as less than you, weren't sick of what our government had been doing, and were tired of people not listening, (as you have clearly illustrated in this post that you have dismissed them, as well), Trump would not have won.
Here's the message: We have had it with the socialist, communist, Marxist wanna-bes, and big government worshipers. The left wants to control everyone.
I wish you could understand, you and others on the right, that the left thinks the same and worse about you. I wish we could ALL understand that there have been forces at work that want to destroy our country and don't give a rat's backside about the left or right, and they are pushing us to hate each other. It is not fair, or right, is it, for liberals to think of conservatives as Bible thumping, gun waving racists? Seriously, is that accurate? I don't believe that it is. I have conservative family members, Trump voting family members, and I don't believe that of them. But the left-pushing algorithms and news sources WANT us to think that about you.
Could you pause to consider for just one second, that the same forces might be at work pushing you to believe the worst of the left? Many of whom are your neighbors, people you grew up with. People who work and serve and live here.
You don't want to be looked down on? I get that. But why would you then do that so eagerly to others? I mean, even to the point of actually accepting one of the oldest propaganda tricks in the book, of thinking of those you're directed to see as the "enemy" as actual pedophiles.
None of us, should be falling for any of this.
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Most in the Republican party would only make half assed attempts to do anything about that. We want the government to leave us the hell alone. Work on infrastructure,
Hello? Biden is doing that? One of his biggest priorities? Did you read the bill?
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stop giving our hard earned money to everyone else, stop shipping our jobs to every other country,
make the military strong, protect our borders from people flooding in, and leave. us. the. HELL. alone!
Biden just signed several bills aimed at helping veterans and improving VA benefits. And he has kept defense spending at about the same levels as before he took office.
As for the borders? I wonder where you live. I saw a post from someone in Brooklyn wigging out about a border crisis. I live in Arizona. And uh, contrary to whatever your news might be showing you, I do not feel overrun by illegal immigrants here. I mean, you'd think I might notice if it were really all that bad?
(I hope I'm ok to assume ya'll know where Arizona is on the map, yeah? Pretty sure YOU do...not sure about everyone in the "room" though.)
I, too, would like for politicians to "leave me the hell alone." I feel far more "left the hell alone" by those in DC at the moment, than I did in like 2019.
But lest you think I'm truly carrying a flag for Team Blue here, I'll let you in on something. Both of our major parties run on lies more than anything, in my adult lifetime. The left claims to care about equal rights, freedoms, choices, equal treatment under the law, for minorities and women and the poor and such. And yet, their policies fall way short of making good things happen there. The right claims that they will lower your taxes and shrink the power of the Federal Government. And yet, if you actually run the numbers (and I have) they don't actually do either of those things. Never have.
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We were sick to death of politicians! What part of that do you not understand?
^Boom.^ Yup, heard. Loud and clear. Me, too, even if I think that Trump managed to be worse.
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Trump showed he heard us. And then he won - and then he got a whole lot of things done that politicians had been telling us for decades couldn't be done, or they just talked about it for decades and did nothing.
The best example is the border. The politicians tried to placate everyone with a dumb fence. A fence. "There. We did our job. We put up a fence." Because those politicians think the American people are stupid. NO! We want a wall. Were it not for RINO Paul Ryan blocking Trump's budget for that wall at every opportunity, the entire thing would have been built.
LOL! And were it not for the Republicans blocking things that the Democrats wanted at every turn, lots of things would have been done long ago! We might have national healthcare like an actual civilized, first world country.
Did you see the videos of people climbing over the wall and timing how fast they could do it? Or the one where the cut a hole in it with a saws-all? Well, I fact checked this one...the first bit was FALSE! Those posts about Mexican people now making it a fun tourist thing to see who can climb Trump's wall fastest, was fake...videos and images are from years prior and a different, older, section of fencing. People who have tried to scale the newer sections apparently fall and get badly hurt. But the claim of being able to cut holes in it with power tools, yeah that one is true. Smugglers have been doing that.
But FYI, the numbers on illegal immigrants in the US at the beginning of 2022, it's about the same as it was around the beginning of 2019. The pandemic lowered the numbers for a bit there.
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Trump didn't give false promises. He delivered on his promises. He said what he was going to do, and he did them.
...wellll... He TRIED. And got blocked by that pesky Paul Ryan, yeah? But that's kinda how it goes in politics. There are things that they say they'll do, and then there are reasons why they don't actually get around to doing them. Often involving opposition from other elected types in the process.
It helps to remember...they ALL care most about whatever they claim to care about, during two times...when they are campaigning, and when they are opposing the party in power. The only time Republicans genuinely care about taxes and the national debt, is when Dems want to spend money. The only time Dems seriously care about minorites and women and poor people, is when they can point at a Republican and accuse them of brutality against same. That's just how the game is played. And once he was in it, Trump played it just like the rest.
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That is why he has a huge following.
And the fact that the left lost their minds over MAGA - which means 'Make America Great Again', tells exactly what they think of this country. And that, more than anything else, is why Trump still has a huge following, and is why they will vote for DeSantis if he's the nominee.
It's not as huge as all that. It's something around 25%-30%, of eligible voters, tops. We all know what MAGA stands for, but we are also watching what it MEANS, so not just the words, but the actions of those who say them.
What cracks me up about this, is that immigrants aren't coming here for health care, which (I guess?) seems to be what you are implying. Americans cross into Mexico for health care. I've known friends who have done so. Medical and dental procedures are far less expensive there and you can find perfectly qualified doctors to do it. Know a lady when went on a resort vacation and got breast implants down there lol!
Don't believe me?
I believe you. I have gone to Mexico for dental work myself. It's called medical tourism. The part you seem to miss is... the Americans PAY FOR IT. For Mexico, it's a source of revenue not an expense to their economy.
Illegals come here for many things. But regardless of why they come here, they will need healthcare once they are here. Illegals get hurt, show up at the hospital where by law they must be treated (unlike Mexico, where you don't get treated or at least allowed to leave until you PAY), then seldom pay. An illegal entrant stopped at the border is an illegal that isn't here to consume healthcare that I'll help pay for.
Btw, your sons are statistically the least likely group to need any expensive healthcare. Insurers would have always loved to have 20 year olds on healthcare. All 20 yr olds, not just the small percentage with major problems, that is.
It might shock you though that I favor universal healthcare. But only for citizens, no exceptions.
Although I am in the Trump camp, if he stepped aside for DeSantis, I would rejoice - and happily support DeSantis full force. But DeSantis is still young, and has more good he can do for FL - then we tee him up for 2028 and we get the longest Republican reign since the 80s.
On the other hand, if the Left has its way - they take the two strongest figures in the Party and pit them against each other - and it produces rapid electoral destruction for the MAGA GOP. Because both men agree on virtually everything and draw much of the same base of support.
I concur that they need to have a talk and one hundred percent ensure there is no civil war.
For one thing, even if DeSantis prevailed in a food fight with Trump, the MSM would then use that against him in the general to try and persuade Trump supporters to stay home. Of course, if the roles were reversed this holds true as well - but many Republicans seem to think DeSantis is somehow immune to the media's attacks. The media would act accordingly in an attempt to divide the MAGA movement permanently, and thus decimate its ranks - ultimately keeping the Dems in power.
Make no mistake, I firmly believe this is the Left's "ace in the hole" - break in case of emergency - and our two greatest assets need to recognize this ASAP.
NO REPUBLICAN is immune to attacks from the leftist media. One thing no one can ignore in the last 20 years is that the media will lie, will suppress stories helpful to the GOP candidate, will fabricate stories harmful to them, will lie and carry water for whoever the Democrats nominate. The media lied and fabricated stories about W, undermining his presidency at every chance over bogus stories about the 2000 election being stolen. In 2008 they attacked McCain constantly, especially for daring to nominate a strong, independent woman as VP. They spend months creating the story that an unaccomplished Jr. senator from IL was somehow presidential material. And we got a 4 year recession out of that one, with the unemployment rate never getting as low during Obama's entire first term as it was the day he was elected. In 2012 they did the same, with a moderator lying during the presidential debates, while Obama attacked him with "the 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back"-when Romney said that RUSSIA was the greatest international threat we faced. WOW, hard to believe even Obama could have been that far wrong-but the media of course never called him on it. And of course we had the constant stream of lies and fabrications about Trump for a year leading up to the 2016 election, including fabricated stories about Russian hookers and golden showers. All, we now know, fabricated by the Clinton campaign, suborning the FBI and the media to manipulate the results of a presidential election. And of course we all remember the 2020 ones.
My point-it doesn't matter who the GOP selects, they will be attacked by the MSM, who is determined to manipulate the public and control elections. Every election they have gone further, with more extreme lies, more fabrications, more suppression of stories harmful to the Jackass candidate. The GOP, sadly, can't select a "nice guy". He has to be a big enough di*k to sling it back to the media just to survive, otherwise he (or she) will be eaten alive. And the more someone demonstrates their willingness to stand up to the media, the more vicious their attacks, the more outlandish their lies and fabrications become.
We can never expect integrity or honesty from the vast majority of the MSM. CNN, BSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, NYT, WaPoo, LAT just as a start. They are "king makers" not news sources. These days Fox is little better.
DeSantis Tops Trump in Conservative Straw Poll But There's Something Unsettling About It
The risk with DeSantis is (1) he won't be as hard and uncompromising as Trump, and (2) we will lose the never-vote people who ONLY came out for Trump
(1) I think DeSantis has now proven himself that he will not back down from anyone and will be just as tough and resilient as Trump, with the added bonus of government experience and legilative skill & experience. He's going to have people on day 1 to staff federal positions.
(2) There is something to this, but IMO most of the typical non-voters will end up voting DeSantis and the for the ones that don't who pout, there will be WAY MORE than enough from the independents and alienated democrats to compensate who couldn't bring themselves to vote for mean tweets
I believe you. I have gone to Mexico for dental work myself. It's called medical tourism. The part you seem to miss is... the Americans PAY FOR IT. For Mexico, it's a source of revenue not an expense to their economy.
Illegals come here for many things. But regardless of why they come here, they will need healthcare once they are here. Illegals get hurt, show up at the hospital where by law they must be treated (unlike Mexico, where you don't get treated or at least allowed to leave until you PAY), then seldom pay. An illegal entrant stopped at the border is an illegal that isn't here to consume healthcare that I'll help pay for.
Btw, your sons are statistically the least likely group to need any expensive healthcare. Insurers would have always loved to have 20 year olds on healthcare. All 20 yr olds, not just the small percentage with major problems, that is.
It might shock you though that I favor universal healthcare. But only for citizens, no exceptions.
I agree, but I also want a solid, rational, humane path to citizenship for those who come here fully willing to work and contribute. And I spent a ridiculous amount of time around illegal Mexican immigrants as a teenager, thanks to my mom's partner at the time, and they are nothing if not hard workers. I think that the reason, really, that a lot of politicians bang that drum so loudly is that when they work, and earn, they do not throw those dollars up the American corporate food chain, they send them home to help their families. I sure want excellent vetting and to keep drug cartel types out, but I also think that where there are parts of South America that our government, decades ago, helped create problems, we might have some obligation to help fix them. What exactly does that look like? Honestly I'm not sure. It is above my pay grade. I have ~zero~ concern about the racial composition of this or any country. EDIT: For what it's worth, they often do pay taxes. I'm not sure that they are the burden on society that some believe them to be. Immigrants built an awful lot of this nation, believe it or not.
It doesn't shock me that you might favor universal healthcare for American citizens. I actually believe that most regular Americans want a lot of the same basic things. We want life to be good here, for us and for our families. We want to work and earn a decent living, to have a realistic path to be happy and healthy and prosperous. To be free to worship or not as we choose. To legitimately live and let live. I dunno about you, but I'm tired beyond words of having all forms of media stuff things in front of my face and say, "LOOK! You should be outraged!! Danger, danger, your way of life is being threatened, they are coming for you!" I'm sick of that. But I've also started getting really skeptical and looking for the manipulation in it. Other Americans, yes, even the most enthusiastic Trump supporters, are not my enemy. I believe I have more in common with even them, than either of us do with the most powerful in government (including Trump, Biden, whoever.)
Tell ya one thing I bet we can all get behind. Equal justice and protections of rights, under the laws, for all US Citizens. If anyone from the bottom to the top tier of wealth or power in this nation, can be proven in court of having done crimes, then they should face the same penalties for doing so under the law. I would HAPPILY see all politicians, for instance, who have committed serious crimes, be put behind bars, so long as there is evidence for it. I think that a.) "Investigations" based on BS are too often used as ploys to make us think that opponents are criminal, and b.) We just don't tend to put rich people in jail even if they deserve it. And I think that needs to come to a screeching halt, and I 100% apply that equally to members of the party that I vote for. They did crime? You have proof that stands up in court? Jail. Next!
Anyhow. I'm not that likely to vote Republican, regardless. They could change my mind but I don't think they will. Somebody upthread said that Biden won't run in 2024, and I honestly hope that they are right and wish I could see where they heard that and how valid a claim that is.
Although I am in the Trump camp, if he stepped aside for DeSantis, I would rejoice - and happily support DeSantis full force. But DeSantis is still young, and has more good he can do for FL - then we tee him up for 2028 and we get the longest Republican reign since the 80s.
On the other hand, if the Left has its way - they take the two strongest figures in the Party and pit them against each other - and it produces rapid electoral destruction for the MAGA GOP. Because both men agree on virtually everything and draw much of the same base of support.
I concur that they need to have a talk and one hundred percent ensure there is no civil war.
For one thing, even if DeSantis prevailed in a food fight with Trump, the MSM would then use that against him in the general to try and persuade Trump supporters to stay home. Of course, if the roles were reversed this holds true as well - but many Republicans seem to think DeSantis is somehow immune to the media's attacks. The media would act accordingly in an attempt to divide the MAGA movement permanently, and thus decimate its ranks - ultimately keeping the Dems in power.
Make no mistake, I firmly believe this is the Left's "ace in the hole" - break in case of emergency - and our two greatest assets need to recognize this ASAP.
Both are arrogant hot heads and will destroy each other. Trumpy not going to let this kid get over on him. And both are very vindictive. I do hope they cancel each other out.
...I agree that it was not a "religious like following" that got him the win, although it does in fact exist. No, he got the win for a couple of reasons. You describe one of them. Americans have had it increasingly pounded into our brains for decades how evil, corrupt, dangerous, or at least useless, the "establishment" is...and Trump represented something different. Not a "career politician." Someone from outside of the machine.
The other reason, is that the media, particularly the MSM that the left watches, blasted non stop messaging that Hillary had it in the bag. That there was no way Trump was going to win. So tons of people who didn't love Hillary (and it's far more normal for Americans to be lukewarm at best about our Prezzie candidates) felt that it would be "safe" to go ahead and vote third party, or that it would be fine if they did not bother to vote, since Trump was never gonna win. The news said so.
Whoops.
What they were trying to do was to make it seem like Trump didn't have a chance so that no one would go out and vote for him. Yes, 'whoops' indeed. They misunderstood just how angry we were.
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I wish you could understand, you and others on the right, that the left thinks the same and worse about you. I wish we could ALL understand that there have been forces at work that want to destroy our country and don't give a rat's backside about the left or right, and they are pushing us to hate each other. It is not fair, or right, is it, for liberals to think of conservatives as Bible thumping, gun waving racists? Seriously, is that accurate? I don't believe that it is. I have conservative family members, Trump voting family members, and I don't believe that of them. But the left-pushing algorithms and news sources WANT us to think that about you.
Could you pause to consider for just one second, that the same forces might be at work pushing you to believe the worst of the left? Many of whom are your neighbors, people you grew up with. People who work and serve and live here.
I don't have tv. I don't listen to talking heads telling me what to think. My opinions of the left come from the lefties, themselves.
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You don't want to be looked down on? I get that. But why would you then do that so eagerly to others? I mean, even to the point of actually accepting one of the oldest propaganda tricks in the book, of thinking of those you're directed to see as the "enemy" as actual pedophiles.
Personally, I don't give a rat's patookis how someone views me. I don't bow down to how they want me to be.
I'm not going over that again, in this thread. He didn't "boom" a damn thing, unless you think that people having to take on extra jobs to be able to make it in this trashed economy is a "boom".
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Biden just signed several bills aimed at helping veterans and improving VA benefits. And he has kept defense spending at about the same levels as before he took office.
Trump already did that.
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As for the borders? I wonder where you live. I saw a post from someone in Brooklyn wigging out about a border crisis. I live in Arizona. And uh, contrary to whatever your news might be showing you, I do not feel overrun by illegal immigrants here. I mean, you'd think I might notice if it were really all that bad?
I recently lived in CA for 5 years. I definitely saw it. Hell, even the small town I went to high school in is completely different demographics now. Yes, I've seen it overrun.
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I, too, would like for politicians to "leave me the hell alone." I feel far more "left the hell alone" by those in DC at the moment, than I did in like 2019.
You feel left alone by a "president" who tried to make 'vaccines' mandatory? REALLY?
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But lest you think I'm truly carrying a flag for Team Blue here, I'll let you in on something. Both of our major parties run on lies more than anything, in my adult lifetime. The left claims to care about equal rights, freedoms, choices, equal treatment under the law, for minorities and women and the poor and such. And yet, their policies fall way short of making good things happen there. The right claims that they will lower your taxes and shrink the power of the Federal Government. And yet, if you actually run the numbers (and I have) they don't actually do either of those things. Never have.
That was the point of Trump! Exactly that! Of course the left doesn't give a cow pattie about the poor. I laugh every day when I deliver to people in my very blue area and they can't be bothered to tip worth a damn. I work my arse off, so I'm not "poor", but I'm certainly not wealthy. Most people doing what I do...they are poor. But these liberals who claim to care so much about those types of people - can't be bothered to show that when their groceries or food orders are delivered. And they are, in fact, the very ones who claim that they 'shouldn't have to tip' at restaurants, it should be the boss who pays the employees more. Yeah, they reallllly care. /sarc
Of course the right doesn't. Again, that was the point of Trump. We were tired of ALL of them. The Republicans love to take our money and spread it around as much as the left does. We voted for Trump because we don't WANT the damn government taking our money and giving it to everyone else.
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LOL! And were it not for the Republicans blocking things that the Democrats wanted at every turn, lots of things would have been done long ago! We might have national healthcare like an actual civilized, first world country.
The difference is, Paul Ryan claimed to be a Republican, yet he spit on every single Republican who voted for Trump - and WANTED Trump to build that wall. So, it's not the same thing as blocking what another party wants, because that other party likes to sneak things into their bills, or say stupid things like, 'We have to pass it before we can see what's in it.' Who the hell falls for that crap? Oh, that's right...it's why we voted for Trump.
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Did you see the videos of people climbing over the wall and timing how fast they could do it? Or the one where the cut a hole in it with a saws-all? Well, I fact checked this one...the first bit was FALSE! Those posts about Mexican people now making it a fun tourist thing to see who can climb Trump's wall fastest, was fake...videos and images are from years prior and a different, older, section of fencing. People who have tried to scale the newer sections apparently fall and get badly hurt. But the claim of being able to cut holes in it with power tools, yeah that one is true. Smugglers have been doing that.
The wall was one part of the plan. That was the first step. And of course the left cried for those who fell and got hurt. Then don't try to climb the damn wall!
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It helps to remember...they ALL care most about whatever they claim to care about, during two times...when they are campaigning, and when they are opposing the party in power. The only time Republicans genuinely care about taxes and the national debt, is when Dems want to spend money. The only time Dems seriously care about minorites and women and poor people, is when they can point at a Republican and accuse them of brutality against same. That's just how the game is played. And once he was in it, Trump played it just like the rest.
Again, there was a reason people voted for Trump. When I say, 'We were sick of politicians and what government was doing', it means ALL of them, and the WHOLE thing.
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It's not as huge as all that. It's something around 25%-30%, of eligible voters, tops. We all know what MAGA stands for, but we are also watching what it MEANS, so not just the words, but the actions of those who say them.
It means what I said. Stop giving our money to everyone else, stop sending our jobs overseas, stop selling us off to the highest bidder, do your damn job and NOTHING MORE, and leave us the hell alone!
The risk with DeSantis is (1) he won't be as hard and uncompromising as Trump, and (2) we will lose the never-vote people who ONLY came out for Trump
(1) I think DeSantis has now proven himself that he will not back down from anyone and will be just as tough and resilient as Trump, with the added bonus of government experience and legilative skill & experience. He's going to have people on day 1 to staff federal positions.
(2) There is something to this, but IMO most of the typical non-voters will end up voting DeSantis and the for the ones that don't who pout, there will be WAY MORE than enough from the independents and alienated democrats to compensate who couldn't bring themselves to vote for mean tweets
To be clear I wasn't actually the poster who made the points you're pushing back on.
I said it before and I'll say it again: I would wholeheartedly support a DeSantis candidacy, or a Trump candidacy.
I just want the two MAGA Gods to smoke 'em peace pipe first.
Trump needs to step aside. This conservative will be once again debating whether or not to vote 3rd Party if Trump wins the primary. What all you “Trump or Nothing” folks need to consider is that if I am not sure I can bring myself to vote for him imagine how hard it will be to convince Independents to, let alone unhappy Democrats.
We can have Trump’s policies without Trump. DeSantsis has shown himself to be a tough fighter who isn’t going to let Democrats or the media run over him and he doesn’t have Trump’s baggage. Plus, by God, he is younger than me.
We don't care if the President is a poopy meanie pants. We care about accomplishments and quality of life which with Dems in charge has gone straight to hell. Give DJT his other 4 years then I'll be supporting DeSantis for another 8 as much as anyone.
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) took over large chunks of Iraq and Syria.
I have voted conservative myself, in the past.
