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YES!We should be able to depend on the public servants we pay to protect us to keep us from harm and hold law breakers (even in uniform) accountable.we should not have to depend on private citizens cell phone videos to hold police accountable because police ignore fellow LEO who violate the constitutionally protected rights of American citizens.
So we should not expect police officers who see a fellow LEO engaging in false arrest, violently assaulting or killing an innocent civilian to act to stop or report the illegal and unconstitutional activities?
If 5 police officers see another police officer use excessive force and beat your ass and it’s not recorded that’s just to bad? We should not expect the other 5 officers to intervene in any way.
That is not acceptable
I agree, police officers should step in when another officer steps out of line. I don't know what the SOP is for police engagements. Are they supposed to allow the officer who had first contact, decide the response? We might have complete anarchy if every officer spent their time second guessing and interfering with every other officer, during the tense and very often confusing arrest and apprehension phases
The Israelis profile their air travelers. Hard. And that's because they are smart. Most terrorists are single, male military age, not 60 year old grandmas. And they question the **** out of them, looking them in the eye, looking for behavioral red flags, etc.
Correct. The solution is not to draw the attention of law enforcement in the first place., If they are looking at you, you must be doing something suspicious or against the norm.
It is this kind of denial that is the problem. I work in law enforcement, and I have had several run ins that were in no way my fault. It is the "cop attitude" that has to go. It is a bully attitude. I also find it in some probation officers (usually ex military), I guess they simply can't download into civilian life but they need to and we need to demand it. Police officers are not the military and citizens do have rights.
We just have to continue to try to get rid of bad cops and and support the ones that aren't bad. Defunding the police is stupid because it just hurts the citizens and the good cops.
IN YOUR OPINION, some videos show excessive force, 'false arrest,' etc...
MOST police officers are trained very well in constitutional rights and are not going to engage in any duty-related activity that violates those rights. That's a pretty basic tenet of their training. If there are a group of officers involved in an incident with a subject, it might be a team take down of a person fighting the police or someone on drugs, etc who cannot be subdued.
But why do I think you know this? In this climate, unless something goes seriously south, well-trained officers are not gonna get involved in this nonsense. It's not worth it. And this is where we are.
If an adverse incident is reported, captured on video, etc, I guarantee that any officer who was present will be interviewed and provide a statement.
Are you aware of the murder of Labuan McDonald’ by officer Van Dyke?
Over a dozen officers were involved in attempting to cover up the murder with false reports destruction of records and giving false statements
The police dept had to be forced to release the video by court order.
The video was so bad the city gave the family $5million before the even filed a lawsuit
Are you aware of the blind white man recently arrested for having a cane in his back pocket? Completely innocent and he will now receive hundred of thousands of dollars.
Are you aware of the young white man in Georgia were an officer suplexed his head into the pavement cracking his school. Completely innocent. He could get $500k+
The idea that cities are paying out 10s of millions in judgements and settlements every year and cops are not violating citizens rights is absurd.these are yearly averages and are expected to increase with more citizens recording police interactions
NYC $170 million
Chicago $46 million
LA $32 million
Wash dc $13 million
I would rather see this money go to services for veterans or programs to help children.
I agree, police officers should step in when another officer steps out of line. I don't know what the SOP is for police engagements. Are they supposed to allow the officer who had first contact, decide the response? We might have complete anarchy if every officer spent their time second guessing and interfering with every other officer, during the tense and very often confusing arrest and apprehension phases
The problem is that the bad officer will do stuff like in this video where one officer grabbed another officer by the throat when she pulled him off of a suspect for going overboard
At the last count I know of, there were 96 individual municipalities in St. Louis County -- all suburbs of St. Louis City (an independent county in itself). The municipalities generally have their own police plus there is the county police force and the state highway patrol. Ferguson has its police; Dellwood has its police; Affton, Hazelwood, Florissant, Chesterfield, Clayton, Jennings, Bridgeton, Creve Coeur, Webster Groves, Kirkwood, Lemay, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. My guess is that this is not an unusual state of affairs in metro areas. There are about 18,000 state and local police forces in the US. Only 838 are accredited -- less than 5%. A bad cop can move around from place to place. Police authorities seem reluctant to discipline abusive cops, but they can move from one place to another and maybe not have a blemish on their record.
One suggestion is to consolidate suburban municipality police forces. Instead of having dozens, one larger professional force with proper supervision and training and proper performance reviews would make an improvement in local policing.
A mandatory professional accreditation system for all police forces should be put into place.
At the last count I know of, there were 96 individual municipalities in St. Louis County -- all suburbs of St. Louis City (an independent county in itself). The municipalities generally have their own police plus there is the county police force and the state highway patrol. Ferguson has its police; Dellwood has its police; Affton, Hazelwood, Florissant, Chesterfield, Clayton, Jennings, Bridgeton, Creve Coeur, Webster Groves, Kirkwood, Lemay, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum. My guess is that this is not an unusual state of affairs in metro areas. There are about 18,000 state and local police forces in the US. Only 838 are accredited -- less than 5%. A bad cop can move around from place to place. Police authorities seem reluctant to discipline abusive cops, but they can move from one place to another and maybe not have a blemish on their record.
One suggestion is to consolidate suburban municipality police forces. Instead of having dozens, one larger professional force with proper supervision and training and proper performance reviews would make an improvement in local policing.
A mandatory professional accreditation system for all police forces should be put into place.
.
What's their budget source? Are the municipalities funded out of central pool or out of their own sources? If the latter and they are all consolidated, then how will the resident of, say, Dellwood feel for paying for police services on the other side of St. Louis? Further, if they are consolidated, will there be cuts where certain municipalities which had police service no longer have it? Further, say there are not cuts but now officers from across St. Louis City are now handling affairs in regions they are unfamiliar with and the citizens are faced with officers they don't know. Add to it that a primary difference between the county and the city is that sheriff can be out of a job at the next election and hence the citizens have more control who their LEO is but the chief of police is there until she quits, retires, or is fired by the mayor.
Add to it, where's the jail now? Is there one jail or are there several? If several, will consolidation result in one jail complex, a "Justice Center"? If so, then how will the families of the inmates react where before, they did not have to drive across St. Louis to visit their loved ones.......to say nothing about how the lawyers will react about their clients.
It sounds great in theory but one should consider everything that is on the plate.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 03-19-2023 at 07:41 PM..
It sounds great in theory but one should consider everything that is on the plate.
There are three hurdles that have to be overcome on this question alone.
One is money -- Do you want to spend the same tax dollars as always on an unprofessional and marginal local Barney Fife police force and continue to complain and cite abusive incidents, or do you want to pay a little more for a professional and trained and standardized local police force? You usually get what you pay for but you may be paying a lot for poor policing already.
One is culture -- Will the folks in Hog Heaven give up their local cops to be consolidated into a larger professional force that might include some of those "other" police officers from East Jesus? Is the fragmented parochial civic culture too ingrained to have the vision of a larger professional police force? There are also related issues of jurisdiction. Going about six miles to my bank, on one road, I drive through two municipalities, an Indian reservation (all with police forces), the broader county Sheriff jurisdiction and the state police jurisdiction. That really isn't as bad as it gets in some other communities with dozens of municipalities.
One is leadership -- Will the County administration and state legislature support the effort? Will 30+ local police chiefs be willing to give up their little kingdoms? Will they even consider accreditation as a future goal. This is not an "defund the police" idea. It is more of a "reinvent the police" idea in places where there might be problems if left unchecked.
The question of continuity of leadership -- the elected Sheriff or a hired police chief -- is a separate issue. I would always prefer to have a hired/appointed police chief who is subject to a review board and selected on merit over some elected sheriff with unimpressive credentials. The election of local sheriffs or other law enforcement/criminal justice officials has not produced a very good or standardized and professional criminal justice system. I would prefer hired or appointed and qualified prosecuting/district attorneys over elected ones. The same with judges. Again, this is a structural problem that would require a rethinking of our criminal justice system.
There are three hurdles that have to be overcome on this question alone.
One is money -- Do you want to spend the same tax dollars as always on an unprofessional and marginal local Barney Fife police force and continue to complain and cite abusive incidents, or do you want to pay a little more for a professional and trained and standardized local police force? You usually get what you pay for but you may be paying a lot for poor policing already.
One is culture -- Will the folks in Hog Heaven give up their local cops to be consolidated into a larger professional force that might include some of those "other" police officers from East Jesus? Is the fragmented parochial civic culture too ingrained to have the vision of a larger professional police force? There are also related issues of jurisdiction. Going about six miles to my bank, on one road, I drive through two municipalities, an Indian reservation (all with police forces), the broader county Sheriff jurisdiction and the state police jurisdiction. That really isn't as bad as it gets in some other communities with dozens of municipalities.
One is leadership -- Will the County administration and state legislature support the effort? Will 30+ local police chiefs be willing to give up their little kingdoms? Will they even consider accreditation as a future goal. This is not an "defund the police" idea. It is more of a "reinvent the police" idea in places where there might be problems if left unchecked.
The question of continuity of leadership -- the elected Sheriff or a hired police chief -- is a separate issue. I would always prefer to have a hired/appointed police chief who is subject to a review board and selected on merit over some elected sheriff with unimpressive credentials. The election of local sheriffs or other law enforcement/criminal justice officials has not produced a very good or standardized and professional criminal justice system. I would prefer hired or appointed and qualified prosecuting/district attorneys over elected ones. The same with judges. Again, this is a structural problem that would require a rethinking of our criminal justice system.
Well, recognize the A and B of it, at least. A: Getting rid of the Sheriff may and probably does mean changing the State's Constitution. B: Indian Reservations are their own lands of a Federal and not a State nature. I think it was John Wayne's True Grit where the Sheriff, played by John Doucette, points out that if the fugitive went into Indian lands, that he the Sheriff could not go there, only the Federal Marshal. Long story short of it, how the native Americans run themselves on their own lands is very much their own affair. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal..._United_States
Get rid of qualified immunity. Quit using the police to raise money for the state.
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