Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In a nutshell yes, ineffectual leadership, and it's costing lives. It's the same thing with Ukraine, "we got your back", except it's a slow drip of weapons, with pre-conditions on their use, essentially tying the hands of Ukraine on waging an effective war. As a consequence, Ukraine lost a significant amount of human capital, has seen it's infrastructure wrecked, and least but not last...has given Russia room to build an effective war machine from the paper tiger which it was at the beginning of their invasion.
In regards to Israel, most of those hostages are now dead, largely thanks to delays, negotiations, and demands for ceasefires. If there was full support and a demand that Hamas surrender and release hostages as the ONLY option, this would have been over by now. There wouldn't be haggling with terrorists over some 3 dozen hostages supposedly left alive, Gazan civilians wouldn't have to be shuffling to yet another safe zone, and the process of rebuilding and the re-education of those people could get started.
“The US is not threatening to give us precise missiles. Oh yeah? Well, I got news for the US. We have imprecise missiles, and we have the right to defend ourselves,” Tally Gotlive, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, told Israeli Channel 7.
“So, maybe instead of using a precise missile and take down a specific room, or a specific building, I’ll use my imprecise missiles, and I’ll just destroy ten buildings. That’s what I’ll do.”
The far-right Knesset member claimed that Israel has the right to defend itself, and “will use what we possess”.
“The US is not threatening to give us precise missiles. Oh yeah? Well, I got news for the US. We have imprecise missiles, and we have the right to defend ourselves,” Tally Gotlive, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, told Israeli Channel 7.
“So, maybe instead of using a precise missile and take down a specific room, or a specific building, I’ll use my imprecise missiles, and I’ll just destroy ten buildings. That’s what I’ll do.”
The far-right Knesset member claimed that Israel has the right to defend itself, and “will use what we possess”.
In a nutshell yes, ineffectual leadership, and it's costing lives. It's the same thing with Ukraine, "we got your back", except it's a slow drip of weapons, with pre-conditions on their use, essentially tying the hands of Ukraine on waging an effective war. As a consequence, Ukraine lost a significant amount of human capital, has seen it's infrastructure wrecked, and least but not last...has given Russia room to build an effective war machine from the paper tiger which it was at the beginning of their invasion.
In regards to Israel, most of those hostages are now dead, largely thanks to delays, negotiations, and demands for ceasefires. If there was full support and a demand that Hamas surrender and release hostages as the ONLY option, this would have been over by now. There wouldn't be haggling with terrorists over some 3 dozen hostages supposedly left alive, Gazan civilians wouldn't have to be shuffling to yet another safe zone, and the process of rebuilding and the re-education of those people could get started.
Except for the "civilians wouldn't have to be shuffling to yet another safe zone," I agree with you. That part would have to happen, since it is the only way to separate the active fighters from the passive fighters (their supporters).
You seem to be one of the very few people, here, that sees, clearly, the cost of slow rolling the support.
I looked to see if this was posted earlier and didn't see it. I thought this was amazingly on target, very sadly so.
If you are pressed for time- go to the 2 minute mark and start watching from there, though it's all worth you time. This is Senator Graham.........
Ordinarily I can't stand this guy. But I admire his passion and dedication in this speech to support Israel. Not sure I totally agree though.
@Serger pointed out above that 2,000 pound bombs have no place in a densely populated city. That makes sense. Right now the population density in Rafah is reported to be 17,500 people per square mile. The blast radius of a 2,000 lb bomb is 1/4 mile (1/2 mile diameter). So it's reasonable to estimate that 4200 people would be killed or maimed with each bomb unless they were evacuated from that radius. That would require essentially vetting every person being evacuated to make sure any Hamas member weren't sneaking through. But how would you know who is a Hamas member or not? Kill every grown male? It's a tough problem.
But either way, you can't just flatten Rafah with 1.3M people in it. Regardless whether Israel is justified or not in doing so, the USA certainly is not. I don't think we want that as part of our legacy.
Ordinarily I can't stand this guy. But I admire his passion and dedication in this speech to support Israel. Not sure I totally agree though.
@Serger pointed out above that 2,000 pound bombs have no place in a densely populated city. That makes sense. Right now the population density in Rafah is reported to be 17,500 people per square mile. The blast radius of a 2,000 lb bomb is 1/4 mile (1/2 mile diameter). So it's reasonable to estimate that 4200 people would be killed or maimed with each bomb unless they were evacuated from that radius. That would require essentially vetting every person being evacuated to make sure any Hamas member weren't sneaking through. But how would you know who is a Hamas member or not? Kill every grown male? It's a tough problem.
But either way, you can't just flatten Rafah with 1.3M people in it. Regardless whether Israel is justified or not in doing so, the USA certainly is not. I don't think we want that as part of our legacy.
I don't see the problem with evacuating the "civilians" from Rafah.
There is a road (Salah Al Deen) that leads out of the West side of the city, then turns north.
Rabaih road (nearly) joins that road, about 2000m north of the turn.
Tell them to take that road, remain well spaced, so that they can be observed by drones.
No vehicle or animal is to move faster than 10 kph, so that patrols could check those, at random points along the way.
There is a network of roads leading up from there, through flat farmland and villages.
It would take about 10 days to empty the city.
Meanwhile, begin at the NE corner of the city and (basically) kill every living thing that remains.
It really is that simple.
(This isn't going to be perfect, of course, nothing in war is perfect.)
Except for the "civilians wouldn't have to be shuffling to yet another safe zone," I agree with you. That part would have to happen, since it is the only way to separate the active fighters from the passive fighters (their supporters).
You seem to be one of the very few people, here, that sees, clearly, the cost of slow rolling the support.
Regarding the civilians and safe zones, what I mean is it probably be over by now, because w/o the mandate to not surrender, Hamas would probably surrender. Or at the very least, they would release all the hostages (with more of them alive), which could have lead to a lasting ceasefire Israel would be willing to live with (which would be a mistake, but you know).
BUT, Hamas does in fact have a mandate to not surrender, that's what happens when demands from America and other civilized nations for negotiations/ceasefires with terrorists are a thing.
For anyone looking for something to listen to, maybe working from home ( like me) or whatever, or interested,
I found this debate really enlightening. And so grateful that both parties stay respectful and can get their points across evenly without devolving ( 99% of the time) into high volume yelling and insulting.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
