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We're against UHC because it would be a crappy program, offer horrible coverage and be BAD for us, and everyone that had to fall under its umbrella.
We're against welfare in its current state because it's doing nothing to help those people that use it. Welfare is supposed to be a temporary assistance but it's been bastardized and now people are making a career of being on welfare.
I'm not sure what they hell you're talking about on your last point.
The left may have good intentions, but they're apparently not intelligent enough to see that the things they push for and advocate are bad for them and the future. Those that think UHC and welfare are good programs are stupid and wrong. I wish there were a more eloquent way of saying that, but reality is if you believe that, you're stupid.
If you were truly "prolife" wouldn't you want some sort of UHC? Say you can arranged where it would work out. Or would you all be crying about the government getting in the way but have no problem with the government getting in between a woman and her body?
I agree with you to a point about welfare. I have seen people abuse it. I have seen people wanting to buy lipstick and nailpolish at the store I used to work at. I ALWAYS REFUSED to let it go through. They would talk to the manager and she would take my side. But yet, the right seems so against welfare even if it is temporary. I know of a prolife family who is very against it. They are even against the min wage being $7.40. What do you say to people like that? I have seen several users on here (on the right) wanting to abolish welfare all together.
The last point about maternity leave is this. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago (maybe) that was about how the US lags behind in maternity leave. You would not believe it but people were talking about having unpaid maternity leave because the business should not suffer, yadda. All righties. Well, righties, if you are "prolife" shouldn't you all be for the mother being comfortable and NOT WORRYING about loss of income or jobs when she is going to having a baby? Shouldn't the mother spend precious time with the infant? I think so but some righties who are "prolife" are against it so the poor businesses do not suffer. That is the point I was trying to make. Leave me choice then, huh?
I also realize the right has good intentions. I respect that. Abortion is not pretty and I wish there was no need for it. But the right has to understand that you cannot just expect women to have children and that be it. She or the child might need help and it seems like you all are against anything that may be of help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaykay
Well, quite a few women also (myself included) do not make that distinction. Like Kevcrawford said, I fail to see how abortion would end the trauma of rape. I agree it compounds the situation. The baby conceived is an innocent life coming into the world who is also the son or daughter of the woman involved, not just the rapist.
But like kev also said, these situations represent very few unwanted pregnancies overall. I don't why the debate always seem to skew over to include these rather rare situations anyway.
I can support a woman who thinks this. Not a man. Sorry. I just do not feel men are justified to speak in these situations.
I understand your point that if someone was raped, it does not change the fact that the fetus is still there. I understand but I respectfully disagree.
If the woman who was raped does not want to carry on with the pregnancy, she should NOT HAVE TOO. It is her body. She was raped. Pregnancy changes your body a lot and puts you through more stress. Poor girl went through such a horrible thing and then she will feel it in her body, haunting her, cursing at her, mocking her. As she gives birth to her rapists child, what will she be thinking?
Oh nice. Just because a woman got raped in a tent means all women who were raped should continue the pregnancy. No. Never.
Can you talk to the woman who was raped? Sure. But in the end it is HER CHOICE. Not yours and for sure not any MAN's choice.
And to that concept of making rape victims carry on with the pregnancy, I just say "".
Being a male has nothing to do with anything, because you know nothing of anything myself or my family has been through. Nothing.
You're welcome to argue your points, but they're wrong. Those of us that area against abortion are against it because we know you're taking a life. The pro-abortion group's only argument is to try and de-humanize the baby, so they don't feel guilty.
It's about saving lives to us. Period. To say otherwise is wrong and ignorant. This isn't about politics. It's not about religion. It's about saving lives and we're disgusted that so many are completely fine with the taking of a human life, no matter the age.
Being a male has nothing to do with anything, because you know nothing of anything myself or my family has been through. Nothing.
You're welcome to argue your points, but they're wrong. Those of us that area against abortion are against it because we know you're taking a life. The pro-abortion group's only argument is to try and de-humanize the baby, so they don't feel guilty.
It's about saving lives to us. Period. To say otherwise is wrong and ignorant. This isn't about politics. It's not about religion. It's about saving lives and we're disgusted that so many are completely fine with the taking of a human life, no matter the age.
How do you know? I could VERY easily say "You're welcome to argue your points, but they're wrong."
You don't know anything I or my family has gone through either. Think of it that way ever?
Don't bring emotion into this. Don't play the emotion card. Meanwhile, I am sorry to hear you might have gone through hard things, it does NOT change the fact that if I want to have an abortion tomorrow, I can. No one (especially a man) will stop me. My body, not yours. None of your business. Those are the facts.
And if you are so "prolife" or whatever, why don't you work on helping women who have the children? Why not go for UHC for pregnant women and their children? Why not fight for paid maternity leaves so then they can better take care of their newborns?
I have never understand how the right (generally prolife) can be all for "saving lives" and such but be so for business and anti welfare/UHC. Never did.
You guys need to work on that department. When you do , I might consider moving over to the prolife side. But until we have better things for women and newborns, I will stay prochoice.
Typical leftist tactic. Take something that happens .00000000001% of the time, make it sound like the norm, and legislate around that.
Bad things happen. This would be a very tough situation. If the child's life was in danger, that's one thing. But killing the baby doesn't unring that bell. The rape happened. The child has been damaged and must endure therapy.
Taking that baby's life wouldn't help the situation. It could make it worse, because as much as the left refuses to admit this, it's a process that MANY, MANY women and girls regret. Giving that child up for adoption saves a life and doesn't force the victim to raise that child as a constant reminder. Killing the baby COULD make the situation much, much worse. That child would then be dealing with being raped AND killing a child.
MANY women are glad that they gave their baby a chance, even if it's with someone else.
Aborting the child doesn't make the rape disappear. The damage has been done.
Again, just grasping at straws. You constantly change the subject, but can't disprove that a fetus IS a child in its earliest form.
This is CRAZEEEEE TALK. Furthermore, it is evil crazy talk, and terrifying. I shouldn't have to explain, but I will just in case a miracle will take place in your mind and soul -- a raped woman is filled with revulsion over what was just "inside her" against her will. When a pregnancy does NOT occur, she can begin to move on, putting the event behind her, and the memory may begin to dim bit by bit. But if a pregnancy occurs, she has THE RAPIST still inside her, growing, growing, growing, like a little monster to remind her every minute of every day of her horror. Not to mention the humiliation. Not to mention the physical discomfort. Not to mention having to explain to the world that she was raped (because we don't want our conservative friends, yours and mine, to mistake her for one of those immoral girls who slept around and got knocked up).
Ugh. I do not know of ANY rape victim who would feel regret over having an abortion. I know of quite a few women who, for whatever sick political reasons, agree to pose as a once impregnated rape victim for the purposes of lending credibility to the Pro Life propaganda machine.
I certainly hope you are not one of those "pro lifers" who are:
1) Against UHC-general welfare for EVERYONE-including babies.
2) Against welfare for mothers
3) Against paid maternity for the mother so she can properly tend to her child in the most important time of his/her life.
I know so many "prolifers" that say they "care". Truth is they only care about you when you are in womb. After that, see ya suckerrrrrrr!
That is the impression I get from most (not all) of you.
Even if all that was true, which it isn't; so what? The baby is either alive or dead.
This is CRAZEEEEE TALK. Furthermore, it is evil crazy talk, and terrifying. I shouldn't have to explain, but I will just in case a miracle will take place -- a raped woman is filled with revulsion over what was just "inside her" against her will. When a pregnancy does NOT occur, she can begin to move on, putting the event behind her, and the memory may begin to dim bit by bit. But if a pregnancy occurs, she has THE RAPIST still inside her, growing, growing, growing, like a little monster to remind her every minute of every day of her horror. Not to mention the humiliation. Not to mention the physical discomfort. Not to mention having to explain to the world that she was raped (because we don't want our conservative friends, yours and mine, to mistake her for one of those immoral girls who slept around and got knocked up).
Ugh. I do not know of ANY rape victim who would feel regret over having an abortion. I know of quite a few women who, for whatever sick political reasons, agree to pose as a once impregnated rape victim for the purposes of lending credibility to the Pro Life propaganda machine.
Exactly, my good friend.
As I wrote "If the woman who was raped does not want to carry on with the pregnancy, she should NOT HAVE TOO. It is her body. She was raped. Pregnancy changes your body a lot and puts you through more stress. Poor girl went through such a horrible thing and then she will feel it in her body, haunting her, cursing at her, mocking her. As she gives birth to her rapists child, what will she be thinking?"
They only care about the fetus when it is in the womb. Not the women, not after the child born from what I see.
If you were truly "prolife" wouldn't you want some sort of UHC? Say you can arranged where it would work out. Or would you all be crying about the government getting in the way but have no problem with the government getting in between a woman and her body?
I agree with you to a point about welfare. I have seen people abuse it. I have seen people wanting to buy lipstick and nailpolish at the store I used to work at. I ALWAYS REFUSED to let it go through. They would talk to the manager and she would take my side. But yet, the right seems so against welfare even if it is temporary. I know of a prolife family who is very against it. They are even against the min wage being $7.40. What do you say to people like that? I have seen several users on here (on the right) wanting to abolish welfare all together.
The last point about maternity leave is this. There was a thread on here a few weeks ago (maybe) that was about how the US lags behind in maternity leave. You would not believe it but people were talking about having unpaid maternity leave because the business should not suffer, yadda. All righties. Well, righties, if you are "prolife" shouldn't you all be for the mother being comfortable and NOT WORRYING about loss of income or jobs when she is going to having a baby? Shouldn't the mother spend precious time with the infant? I think so but some righties who are "prolife" are against it so the poor businesses do not suffer. That is the point I was trying to make. Leave me choice then, huh?
I also realize the right has good intentions. I respect that. Abortion is not pretty and I wish there was no need for it. But the right has to understand that you cannot just expect women to have children and that be it. She or the child might need help and it seems like you all are against anything that may be of help.
I can support a woman who thinks this. Not a man. Sorry. I just do not feel men are justified to speak in these situations.
I understand your point that if someone was raped, it does not change the fact that the fetus is still there. I understand but I respectfully disagree.
If the woman who was raped does not want to carry on with the pregnancy, she should NOT HAVE TOO. It is her body. She was raped. Pregnancy changes your body a lot and puts you through more stress. Poor girl went through such a horrible thing and then she will feel it in her body, haunting her, cursing at her, mocking her. As she gives birth to her rapists child, what will she be thinking?
Oh nice. Just because a woman got raped in a tent means all women who were raped should continue the pregnancy. No. Never.
Can you talk to the woman who was raped? Sure. But in the end it is HER CHOICE. Not yours and for sure not any MAN's choice.
UHC has nothing to do with being pro-life. It's a horrible bill, filled with pork, and it will do nothing but reduce the medical advances and quality of care that we deserve in this country. There's not anyone in this world that thinks the status-quo is OK. There NEEDS to be serious change in the health insurance system. SERIOUS change. But UHC wouldn't make anything better. It'd cost us more in taxes and give us an inferior product.
The minimum wage was designed for people entering the work force. It's not for someone that's been working at the same job for 20 years. What made America great was peoples' ambition. The fact that they aspired to more and worked their butts off to get there. Welfare and the minimum wage does nothing but prevent that. It makes people lazy. If you always have that safety blanket, you never worry about being without. Without that concern, you never aspire to more. That's why the most successful people in the world are those that stepped out and started their own companies. We don't know what we're making one day to the next, or if we'll make anything at all, which keeps us driven to be the best at what we do. Welfare and minimum wage is a cop out for those that think they can't do any better and it's ruining our country. Without a minimum wage, a few people will make less, but MANY, MANY jobs will come back to America, meaning that more people would work, meaning that demand for goods would go up, which would mean more companies are doing better and they'll pay the employees more, or risk losing them to another booming company. Common sense.
For the rape situation, I'm done with the conversation, as I know that killing an unborn child is taking a life. Rape or not, it's taking a life. The rape is a horrible situation that nobody should EVER endure, but the taking of a life can compound that. It needs to be a state issue. Not a federal one. You're never going to be able to legislate against it and I'm not sure if that's the government's place.
The main issue is the morality of this country and that so many want to make it seem like it's something that's OK to do. People are allowed to make their own choices in life, but the pro-abortion lobby have done their best to make abortion "just another procedure" and try to take the guilt out of the decision. Taking a life should always involve guilt.
Can you talk to the woman who was raped? Sure. But in the end it is HER CHOICE. Not yours and for sure not any MAN's choice.
Not to mention, no human being should ever EVER be brought into this world knowing that they were conceived in a heinous act of violence against their mother.
Several people have posted about how men don't have a right to weigh in on this topic, as if women are naturally more understanding. I'm here to tell ya, THEY ARE NOT!!! Women are some of the most vicious and idiotic proponents of crazy evil stuff. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that men are naturally clueless and insensitive and that women are naturally more understanding when it comes to abortion. Sadly, there are women who are motivated by all kinds of unhealthy impulses, whether they have a sick desire to see another suffer as they were forced to suffer, or whether they are desperately seeking approval from others for certain political beliefs. I agree that one would think women should be more understanding, but people very often betray their own natures in order to gain something inferior and artificial.
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