Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1. You called them treasonous yet if you read my post there is no way you should have been able to come to that conclusion.
2. The south wanted to secede which was their right.
3. Had the north allowed them to secede there would have been no bloodshed.
1. You are anticipating my reasoning is reflective of yours, or that yours is so flawless as that it would not invite disagreement. You are incorrect on both accounts.
You citation of the constitution is valid in the case of the confederates, however any claim they have of their constitutional rights were negated when they choose not to abide by it and create their 'confederacy'.
If you disagree with the way the old rules are, you change them. You dont make new rules altogether and attack those who follow the old.
2. See #1
3. No bloodshed of northerners, but who knows how much bloodshed, ethnic cleansing and slavery would have persisted.
Lets not forget, these were white supremacist slavers were talking about. This wasnt the Northern Irish standing up to the british, these were white supremacists who believed in, supported, and wished to maintain racial slavery. There is no nobility in that.
UGH! I wish to God people would pick up a bloody ------- history book and READ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus Podgorny
I am all for displaying the Confederate flag in military museums. It should hang alongside the Swastika and the Rising Sun and all of the other flags representing the defeated enemies of the United States.
Ah, so we stuff it away in buildings full of history that half of the population doesnt bother with anyway?
NOT!
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick
And the majority of the world perceives it that way too.
Im so glad you can speak for the majority of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maskedman
I can guarantee they don't care what anyone else thinks.
God Bless The South and God Bless the Great State of South Carolina!
*Takes a bow*
And I happen to be one of those who dont give a tinkers damn about what anyone else thinks or some Yankee's hurt feelings. My family DIED under that flag. I own a Battle flag with splatters of my great uncles blood on it. I own letters he wrote to his sweetheart in the midst of battlefields. That speaks more volumes to me than any opinion anyone else can throw at me.
Nobody is going to tell me I should be ashamed of something I was born, both regionally and family-wise, with a right to fly.
PS, as a proud Sandlapper, we love you too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hombre57
And this is what you believe.
So, we are not one nation United?
And, this is what you do not believe?
OK, have it YOUR WAY.
I prefer the flag the way it is, and do not like the confederate flag. Confederate: to unite in a league, alliance, or conspiracy.
Not a Nation or Country.
So Confederate pretty much means about the same as United. United=Alliance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80
My Take:
1. Confederates were treasonist. And not even treasonist for a good reason, treasonist because they believed in the same racial supremacy doctrine the nazis did.
2. The confederate flag has the same effect as the a swastika. Both were symbols of a failed Racialist Republic which believed in slavery and white supremacy
Quote:
Originally Posted by tindo80
1.
If you disagree with the way the old rules are, you change them. You dont make new rules altogether and attack those who follow the old.
.
Attack my backside!
Lincoln ordered the approach to Ft Sumter AFTER we had seceeded. When we seceeded that made it another country. Lincoln was warned that if he tried to resupply Sumter there would be trouble. He didnt listen and tried anyway.
Why don't you go into some VFW or American Legion bar sometime -- in Texas or Alabama or North Carolina -- when them old vets of WWII are getting together and having a beer and all, and compare the Confederate Flag with that of Nazi Germany?
One might not like Ann Coutler (I do...but neither here nor there), this put it very well:
The military ethic of the South does place a premium on fighting, fraternity-like rituals, respect for authority, chivalry and virulent patriotism. But whether that ethic is your cup of tea or not, it was disproportionately Southerners -- some wearing Confederate battle flags under their uniforms -- who formed the backbone of the military that threw back Adolf Hitler.
Yeah, just tell some of those old men different...
Coulter is simply wrong about that, but then what else is new. I know you in the South like to perpetuate the fiction that you've done all the fighting and the dying for America in it's wars. However, the rest of us proved on at least one occasion that we could win a war not only without you, but against you. You did not 'form the backbone' of those who defeated Hitler, any more than New England farmers or Midwestern city dwellers or Western loggers.
The comparison of the Swastika and Rising Sun and the Confederate flag is perfectly appropriate. They all were representative of enemies of the United States. And all represented entities responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans (note: Americans, not rebels).
Now then? Ask yourself THIS one, before you get too dad -gum didactic? That is, WHY are there FIFTY STARS on the United States Flag? Why not just ONE solid star in the blue canton, to represent it all? Is that how would you prefer it? Fifty or One? That is to say, nothing different, no natural diversity, no nothing save some screwy sorta feel-good notion of all being "one"?
Or could it be there are really are 50 because there are 50 different states? EACH with its own character and particular history and diversified regions? What is wrong with that? UNIITED, but not uniform. Bonded, but not bland. And the Southern states have always been those which have been most traditionally patriotic.
Yes, they were so patriotic they killed hundreds of thousands of American soldiers from Iowa and Wisconsin and Maine and New York and the rest of the United States. That's some kind of patriotism.
It is a symbol of state pride and family heritage. It is not hateful, nor should anyone be ashamed of the stars and bars. Hatred, racism and the Klan deserve our scorn, but not the sentiments of people who sacrificed thier lives in the quest for state's rights and personal freedom.
No, what they actually did was kill hundreds of thousands of American soldiers in a quest to maintain slavery.
It is not worth the effort to argue with fools who actually believe (or pretend to...just to get a fuss started) there is anything remotely comparable with the American South and Nazi Germany. It was mostly Southern men who not only formed the United States, but formed the majority of the army which kicked Nazi philosophy into scattered pieces....
Where do you get this loony notion that the South formed the majority of the American army during the second world war? Since, excluding blacks who weren't allowed to serve in integrated units, the south constituted a small minority of the population of the United States, the idea that they formed the majority of the army is dumb beyond belief.
1. You are anticipating my reasoning is reflective of yours, or that yours is so flawless as that it would not invite disagreement. You are incorrect on both accounts.
You citation of the constitution is valid in the case of the confederates, however any claim they have of their constitutional rights were negated when they choose not to abide by it and create their 'confederacy'.
If you disagree with the way the old rules are, you change them. You dont make new rules altogether and attack those who follow the old.
2. See #1
3. No bloodshed of northerners, but who knows how much bloodshed, ethnic cleansing and slavery would have persisted.
Lets not forget, these were white supremacist slavers were talking about. This wasnt the Northern Irish standing up to the british, these were white supremacists who believed in, supported, and wished to maintain racial slavery. There is no nobility in that.
The Constitution allowed for secession and there was no clause for a perpetual union, how were they not abiding by it?
As far as #3, I am in no way condoning slavery by pointing out that there was no treason.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
