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Why is that whenever something is proposed to help a segment of the population the other segment i.e folks who are relatively well off are the loudest to complain? People with healthcare benefits are the most vocal against the current bill while people who will actually benefit from it are virtually silent. This bill is a good idea for those of us who are suffering with other bills on top of having a student loan,
Your bills are not my problem or responsibility. Sounds like you are living overyyour head to boot.
Just because it may not benefit you, why trash it entirely? Many of you are incrediblely self centered, many of you bring up the national debt as if you have to pay for it personally.....idoits!
Who is the idiot. Where do you think the government gets it's money?
There was a national debt before you were born and there will be one after you die so why make a fuss about it now? It did not cross anyones mind when millions of dollars disapeared in IRAQ during the war that is still unaccounted for. Where was the noise when companies that made outrageous profits through no bid contracts during the war and than moved their company out of the country .......can you hear me haliburton?
Yep, Clinton should't have awarded all those contracts.
I understand that the president can't make everyone happy all of the time but at least he is trying. The issues that he is trying to correct or at least make better were not even mentioned in the last 8 years,
Health care is not in a crisis, we need the Stimulas NOW, even though only about 1/3 has been spent and not on shovel ready projects.
but I guess that was o.k. I don't blame him for trying but I do blame the dumbocrats for not supporting him like the sheep that followed bush. The repulsicans feel that their job is to discredit EVERYTHING that Obama suggest,
When he comes up with something worth supporting, I will support it.
and not to help the american people who voted the knuckleheads in the first place. The Supremes actually supported the buying (or at least renting) national policy through the constantly for sale politicians who by the way are already wealthy and have the BEST healthcare coverage in the country.
I hate to break your bubble but, congress has the same health care plan as all federal employees.
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Just something to think about
(stepping off of my soapbox)
You obviously haven't graduated yet. Go back to class
There's a student loan lender that lends money to students. They charge interest on interest. The student makes payments monthly, yearly, but the principal never goes down, even after 10 years, and the amount they borrowed and now owe dramatically increases. When the student can no longer make payments due to illness, unemployment, the lender puts the student into default. If the student loan is government insured the lender will get paid by the government if it is in default. But this company holds onto these loans,
sometimes several years, harassing the borrower even though they can not pay. THEN, this lender gives it to the Federal Government who now pays lender all principal and compounded interest. Not uncommon for the government to pay this lender two or three times what the student originally borrowed. Now the government has the loan, and the process starts all over again with the student loan borrower. Student loans can not be discharged in bankruptcy court like any other consumer loan.
What's the name of this company: Sallie Mae. What is this company worth today: 127 Billion dollars, with a majority of their loans federal insured by the US government. They have ripped off students, the federal government, and tax payers since the 1970's.
Check out StudentLoanJustice.Org and click on a state of your choosing and read the students testimonials or read Sallie Mae's Success Too Costly? - 60 Minutes - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/05/60minutes/main1591583.shtml - broken link). I think you will agree student loan forgiveness and reform is warranted - It has been a long time coming
I have not taken out one of these loans, but I know many folks who have and it's quite sad - the way they are treated and financially abused. Our young people, who want to be educated and need an education simply to work and compete in the world we live, deserve better
What do you base this on? Engineers almost universally hold strong as the highest paying college major, both out of the gate and long-term.
most-lucrative-college-degrees.html: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/107402/most-lucrative-college-degrees.html?mod=edu-collegeprepRight - broken link) there after Law degree holders.
Basing it off of personal anecdotal experience of a Network Engineer whom I am very close with. As well as statistics like
The unemployment claim of electrical and electronics engineers hit a record low of 8.3%. And what's worse the biggest slump was in the last quarter in which it nearly doubled.
The news for EEs was particularly bad as the jobless rate more than doubled from 4.1 percent in the first quarter to a record-high 8.6 percent in the second. The previous quarterly record was 7 percent, in the first quarter of 2003.
In the first quarter, the computer professionals' jobless claims was at 5.6%, but it is now standing at 5.6%. Good that it has not gone down too.
Disagree with this as well. The law thing is pretty cut and dry: If you don't get into a tier one, you're taking a big, big chance. If you get into a tier one and finish in the top 20 percent, you can probably make six figs right out of the gate if you interview well. This of course assumes that you want to do suicide-inducing work for a living (for me), but alas it's there.
Right...which we all know that MOST law students wont attend the top Law Universities. Meaning that in general, for the average Law student, they will struggle to even find that suicide inducing work
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkin about it
That's not true based on what I have read. Code monkey's and baseline regurgitation jobs are going to India, not serious computer engineering and computer science, in mass.
It simply isn't happening in mass, or even in considerable part, for computer science majors nor engineers based on what I have read. I would love to see some stats here.
Very very astute observation..when you said "computer scientists", I assumed that you were including programmers/code monkeys, as so many computer science majors are.
However AGAIN, I have first hand knowledge that Network engineering (the most promising job field behind healthcare) jobs are going overseas...They only need the engineer to design the networks, not install them...Technicians jobs are cheaper than Engineer jobs, so while technicians remain domestic, engineering jobs go abroad.
That's ridiculous patently false. First, comp scy majors across-the-board have a starting salary average of 54K, with an overall average salary in the mid-70's. More importantly, I don't think you understand what computer science majors do based on your description. Computer science has little to do with computers in most employment situations; it is a way of solving problems, in a sense.
Yeah yeah...computer science mostly about developing algorithms and psuedocodes, running them through the program to test it, and then tweaking it until it suits its purpose...basically trial and error to the n'th degree. I wouldnt know much about computer science majors..hell I readily admit that switched mine after only two years of it....lol..not fun stuff...but you cant tell me that I wasnt perpetually tethered to a computer for those two years....yes, much of it was abstract problem solving..but in Computer Science, the only way to solve a problem is to test the solution, on a computer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkin about it
A computer science bachelor's of science is much different than an associates degree in information systems, etc. which is more what you are describing. At my alumni job fair there were over 20 corporations on campus interviewing for comp scy majors; this is one of the most economically depressed sectors of the economy. It's a great major and jobs are everywhere in the private sector. Again, I don't mean to be rude but it appears to me you've created your own reality here. "The US economy is expected to add 1.5 million computer- and information-related jobs by 2012, while this country will have only half that many qualified graduates, according to one analysis of federal data."
No offense taken, and I honestly dont mean any of my own, but vagueness such as "by 2012" and "Computer and information related jobs" are not really what Im describing. Again, Im not doubting your knowledge of your field, and Im sure you are correct, but Computer and information related jobs can encompass everyone from technical writers, to web designers, to technical animators, to engineers, to video game programmers, to geophysicists to yes, computer scientists. I mean that as of right now, specifically outsourcing, and the constant retraining requirements make engineering jobs not as stable of a field as some would have us believe.
No. Everybody can do 101 calculus, but not everybody can do math. I'd bet a literally majority of college educated adults could not do high level calc if they dedicated their lives to it. It's incredibly difficult and requires a lot of intellectual talent in a variety of different ways. Math is, in general, the single biggest predictor of success in the new economy.
You're correct in the sense that Americans, particularly American kids suck at math...HOWEVER, I would submit that we ALL suck at math compared to other advanced nations. ALMOST all of our student population sucks at reading and literacy as well. American students can hardly read or write anymore, yet that isnt harped upon quite as much as math. I hear it from teachers who actually work with students all the time: kids suck at reading and writing. And we are at the bottom of the list for both reading/writing AND math among advanced nations. So Im not quite sure why the bias only exists towards math here.
Math competency doesnt mean what it used to mean. Although not as many math majors are being pursued, even the students that we consider mathematical geniuses today, arent as innately skilled as their predecessors. Calculators and programs like CAD have all but made arithmetic/geometry skills obsolete for the common person and to some degree even for some professionals. I mean, sure one can learn to plug a few numbers into AutoCAD, or Quickbooks and call themselves an engineer or an Accountant or "Math major"...but the desire to develop and implement formulas to solve complex problems remains elusive to almost all Americans. (Not speaking of immigrants.)...as does the desire to write or use sophisticated grammar.
So my point is that while Math careers are a bit more difficult to excel in, they are also some of the first to be outsourced. As you know math is the universal language. So for many students, the input may not yield equal output, especially when companies know that even the BEST American math grads, are only average at best compared to grads from other advanced countries. Obviously much of Asia is advanced in math, thus they are receiving most of our outsourced math based jobs. Again, Im not saying that educations in math nor science do not hold a great deal of career potential..But they are no safeguard either.
And let me just add, that it doesnt matter how good one is at math, math classes (the ones that supposedly not everyone can do), are really only practical for real world use if there is not engineering, or economics/finance involved, which are the most widely available and most in-demand math/science based careers. In which case again, some of those jobs are easily outsourced, and require constant retraining to maintain employment. Pure mathematics are, on their own, about as useful in the real world as being proficient in pure drawing.
Last edited by solytaire; 01-31-2010 at 08:11 PM..
The DH and I struggle in our early 20's because we had an obligation to pay our student loans back and we did and we paid them in full. Why? because we OWED the money.
If you have student loans and do not pay them back, that to me, is stealing.
Walking away from a responsibility is wrong and is rewarding a person for doing so.
I thought getting a college degree, working hard for it and then going on to have a rewarding career and life was a good thing? Guess now you can go to college, get a job and forget about your responsibilities.
YOU SIGNED THE DOTTED LINE - PERIOD.
If you do not pay it back, you have stolen the money from someone or something.
---------
Kat- I am totally for a FAIR TAX for everyone, rich, poor etc all should pay their fair share. No one should get away with not paying a dime into our tax base. I am not for over taxing successful people when so many people are not paying a dime into our tax base. That is not right.
I am sorry if I offended you and your daughter, I apologize, but I did not mean you or her personallyor anyone personally for that matter.
If she is going to school and trying to make a better life for herself by doing so then she needs to be commended for doing so.
I am totally for people being responsible for their actions, telling kids they can walk away from a responsibility is wrong and is not teaching them well.
I agree, My husband and I paid off 15,000 combined twenty years ago.
Just had to do it, there was no recourse, you did not want to have a ding on your credit. Was hard to get a mortgage back in those days.
You would not have HAD to take out $50,000 in loans. No one HAS to do that. For that kind of degree an affordable state college should have been sufficient and a large number of very financially smart students attend community college for the first two years, they live at home, they work many hours and pay their own way.
YEAH I did (parents paid about 30k that they saved for me, obviously couldn't ask for more. we made too much money to qualify for finaid, but too little to actually afford college)...I WENT TO A STATE COLLEGE!!! The community college had a waitlist to enter. I worked 25-50 hrs a week depending on courseloads (21 units a quarter to get out faster). You don't know the reality of the situation. Please do yourself a favor and don't speak on things you know little to nothing about.
College students seem to have plenty of money when it comes to luxury vacations during spring break, cruising the night clubs and bars, and no one bats at eye at a concert ticket no matter how ridiculous the price.
I don't know a single person who took a "luxury" vacation. Expensive concert tickets? It's college...not "The Hills". Again, obviously you don't know. Your ignorance is showing.
I agree that there are very low paying jobs with high educational requirements (ie., social workers come to mind). People that go into those professions don't do so for the pay, they do it for the love of the profession. The fact of the matter is that supply and demand for services will set wages. When there is an abundance of workers, employers have the upper hand in setting salaries. If it is a high demand field, the pay will be reflected in that. I DO feel for you, but you were able to make that choice to go into that field. Were you aware of the pay grades before you went into that field?
I wasn't aware of the CURRENT pay, since the pay was higher before I graduated (hence the idea). See, we are state funded (most regional centers recieve a good portion of funding from the state). The regional centers in turn send us contracts. Thus, during times of financial solvency, ABA tutors made a better wage. However, programs are being cut, thus a pay cut. So it's not as easy as simply saying I had a choice since there are many other variables involved. Simply put, college shouldn't have to be this expensive.
That's a hefty assumption. I can't argue your conclusion, but I see no evidence for the premise.
Thanks nvxplorer. Soon after I posted this, I had second thoughts, because not all the patterns matched up. So I blew holes in my own theory.
I came into this thread because I was most interested in the loan forgiveness and any information I may learn. So, I'm just going to track back and lurk.
For the record though, people should repay their debts otherwise it constitutes stealing and that's just, no. I've heard this said, 'Success is learned through failure'.
A person must be aloud to fail, so as to learn how to succeed. imho, the government should back up and rethink new polices (old polices) through.
I don't disagree with you at all in the amount of information librarians need to perform their job. My problem is in our educational system itself. I think we should become more focused and streamline our education and cut out the stuff that really doesn't matter. We should get rid of the bs/ms combo's altogether and make the program a 4 or 5 year program without all the silly gen ed requirements that just add to the length of time it takes. They would start taking classes specifically for their major as a freshman. There's no reason for someone pursuing a degree in finance or marketing for example to need to take the token foreign language or sociology class.
We could lower the cost of degrees and cut down the time it takes to earn them.
I appreciate what you are saying, however, happy texan specifically targeted librarians and library science as a wasteful program, which it's not. Library school classes are practical classes. In library school, we actually put to practical use, the classes and information that was taught. You can't say that about MBA school or law school for the most part (as a former legal resarch professor, legal research and writing are the only practical classes in law school). The only practical aspects of most masters programs are the internships.
You are going broad, which, in essence, I say YES, but when a poster targets one specific masters program and that program happens to be mine ... well ... I "gots" to defend.
I appreciate what you are saying, however, happy texan specifically targeted librarians and library science as a wasteful program, which it's not. Library school classes are practical classes. In library school, we actually put to practical use, the classes and information that was taught. You can't say that about MBA school or law school for the most part (as a former legal resarch professor, legal research and writing are the only practical classes in law school). The only practical aspects of most masters programs are the internships.
You are going broad, which, in essence, I say YES, but when a poster targets one specific masters program and that program happens to be mine ... well ... I "gots" to defend.
I'm fighting back laughter, but what exactly do librarians learn that requires a degree LOL. Please be specific.
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or read Sallie Mae's Success Too Costly? - 60 Minutes - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/05/60minutes/main1591583.shtml - broken link). 
, but I know many folks who have and it's quite sad - the way they are treated and financially abused.
