Shouldn’t women take responsibility in certain assault situations? (mentally, men, boyfriend)
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We all owe a responsibility to ourselves to keep ourselves out of situations we can't get out of or will lead to our harm. There's no getting around that. We will always be our own best advocates. This does not mitigate any responsibility on the part of the perpetrator in a sexual crime, or in any crime really. We have no right to offend against people just because they have left themselves open for it. That is no justification at all, and the offense will not become partly the fault of the victim in those cases. It will always be the fault of the perpetrator who chose to offend, even if the offence is against someone who "never should have worn that dress".
Let’s take a women out of this equation. Let’s say a guy is in a bar, cheering on his favorite team. A fellow fan invites him over to see the rest of the game on his big screen tv. If he goes is he then responsible for getting robbed and raped?
What if he gets money out of an ATM in the evening and gets mugged. Is that his fault for flashing money around after dark?
Let’s say he is driving his new sports car down the street and get car jacked. Is that his fault for getting an expensive car?
Most men, I believe, understand what consent is. Most men, I believe, are not thinking a woman dressed in a provocative way is “asking for it”.
But there is a very small percentage of men that are provoked by it. There is a very small percentage of men that are just looking for an excuse to be sexually violent. Whether or not it’s “okay” or “right”; they do exist.
Given this as fact; if a woman becomes impaired or if a woman is inappropriately dressed ... That woman is contributing to the odds that she will be assaulted. Is that “right”? No. Of course it’s not right. Is she “responsible”? No. The assulter is responsible.
So she’s not responsible. So what. He goes to jail. So what! He’s not the one left with PTSD; she is. He’s not the one having nightmares; she is. It doesn’t cease to have happened just because he is to blame. It’s not going to go away.
So he goes to jail & say ... every person in the world has a change of heart & decides point blank that a woman has no responsibility. Do the nightmares stop then?
It’s like getting a green arrow in the left hand turn lane. But you notice an oncoming driver who is not slowing down! He’s going to run the red light!
Do you continue through the intersection anyway? Or do you slam on the brakes? I mean; you do have the right of way. Nobody will actually hold you responsible against the guy that ran a red light. And totaled your car. And killed your kid. And left you in a wheelchair.
But it’s fine because it was 100% his fault. Right?
I agree completely that people should try to make smart choices to be wary and keep themselves safe, and most of us DO. We look upon women, even those who have never been victimized, who go out and get hammered drunk, as behaving in risky, problematic, and self-destructive ways. Everyone knows this. The ONLY reason that these conversations are problems, is that there are people who prey on the vulnerable, deliberately, or make people more vulnerable deliberately so that they CAN prey on them, and these arguments are later brought up in court as reasons that the predators don't deserve punishment.
All the people here saying, "It is 100% the fault of the rapist" and pushing back, the only reason we feel a need to say these things, is that prosecution and justice for actual rape, and I mean of the kind where there are credible witnesses, video, hard evidence in hand, DNA for heaven's sakes...it's still a joke. Well, maybe if you're a minority or someone with priors that the state wants anyhow you might do serious time, but in many cases the victim is put on trial and anything they might have done to make themselves vulnerable is considered somehow a signal to the predator that they consented.
I've heard plenty of guys say that if she's too drunk to say no, then she consented. No need for her to say yes, as long as she doesn't say no. And then they take their dates to bars and buy them drinks, as many as they can, mixed drinks with higher alcohol content than what they're drinking, hoping it'll give them a better chance. I have heard men talk about doing this like it's just part of the game.
Personally I don't understand the appeal of alcohol in the slightest. I LIKE my inhibitions, few as they are, they keep me safe. I don't get having to render oneself sloppy, obnoxious, or reckless, or worse, just to be brave enough to talk to other human beings or to "have a good time." But STILL. If a woman must inevitably own the natural consequences of a choice to put herself at risk (which is not even always the case) then a man can at least own the legal consequences of committing a crime.
The problem usually lies in the proof. Because even if you prove that sex happened with these specific people, you can practically never prove whether consent happened or not, if there were no witnesses. It is, as is often said, "he said/she said." And knowing this is why so many women don't even bother to report it.
I think there is something to that. So often women end up in bad situations because they don't want to seem rude or make someone feel bad. If something does happen she shouldn't me made to feel like it's her fault because she didn't do more to protect herself.
You definitely hang out with a different class of woman than I do. They will shut a guy down in a heartbeat if he doesn't meet their 'hotness' metric, absolutely zero empathy.
Otoh, if a woman thinks a guy is hot then there better be someone watching out for her welfare.
All the people here saying, "It is 100% the fault of the rapist" and pushing back, the only reason we feel a need to say these things, is that prosecution and justice for actual rape, and I mean of the kind where there are credible witnesses, video, hard evidence in hand, DNA for heaven's sakes...it's still a joke. Well, maybe if you're a minority or someone with priors that the state wants anyhow you might do serious time, but in many cases the victim is put on trial and anything they might have done to make themselves vulnerable is considered somehow a signal to the predator that they consented.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick there ain't an ever loving thing someone can say that doesn't assign them some sort of collective guilt nowadays. It's worse than old time Catholicism. Acknowledge that women need to look out for themselves and all of a sudden you are blaming them for being raped. Acknowledge that the rapist is 100% at fault and you're reacting to some sort of institutional misogyny, and possibly racism as well. You walk around on eggshells and then someone starts screaming because you're mistreating the damned eggshells.
For the record the reason people have to be so careful to use numerous disclaimers about rapists being 100% at fault is because of people who accuse them of trying to blame the victim, not because of institutional misogyny or racism. Numerous discussions have been halted in their tracks by someone tossing a hysterical "how dare you blame the victim for being raped!" card in to the mix.
Rape is about power, sex is just the vehicle used to get that power over the victim.
Nah, not always.
Certainly true for a serial rapist, or anyone who roofies drinks.
A guy with too many drinks in him at a bar quite probably would be perfectly happy with a willing partner, and many times is too inebriated to even know if the object of his affections can legally give consent, and in fact often is also in a position of being unable to legally consent himself.
Jesus Christ on a pogo stick there ain't an ever loving thing someone can say that doesn't assign them some sort of collective guilt nowadays. It's worse than old time Catholicism. Acknowledge that women need to look out for themselves and all of a sudden you are blaming them for being raped. Acknowledge that the rapist is 100% at fault and you're reacting to some sort of institutional misogyny, and possibly racism as well. You walk around on eggshells and then someone starts screaming because you're mistreating the damned eggshells.
For the record the reason people have to be so careful to use numerous disclaimers about rapists being 100% at fault is because of people who accuse them of trying to blame the victim, not because of institutional misogyny or racism. Numerous discussions have been halted in their tracks by someone tossing a hysterical "how dare you blame the victim for being raped!" card in to the mix.
What?
I'm not talking about collective guilt, unless you're in the class of actual rapists who should have gone to prison but instead got off (god that pun is so bad...)
We have some saying "The victim should take responsibility"
Other saying "No, rapists should take responsibility"
And those of us who are being, I dunno, RATIONAL, saying that everyone should be careful but when the crime still happens (and it does) then the criminal needs to be properly prosecuted and sentenced. Which often does not happen, and even though I get that sometimes proving rape is tricky, the fact that getting justice for it is hard to do, sucks.
And here you're all talking about eggshells? Saying the only reason you would disclaimer that rape is a rapist's fault, is so you don't get yelled at by feminists or some nonsense? Dude, what, even.
I wonder whether these victim-blaming men really want to live in a world where all women take the precaution of never being alone with them, or sharing food or drink with them, or letting them come into physical contact with them, or looking attractive around them, or going somewhere not in a pack of harpy girlfriends, or...well, you get the jist.
LOL. That's the very definition of blaming..... you could have avoided a downside if you had done things differently. Hence, you're to blame for the downside you experienced.
There's a difference between the "downside" of not taking the garbage out for collection.....and the "downside" of going to the home of a complete stranger you just met in a bar.
There'a a difference between the "downside" of putting off the grocery shopping and the downside of going to the home of a complete stranger.
If you can't understand those differences it just means that you aren't taking precautions because..well...maybe you figure you shouldn't have to. That's your perrogative in life...just as it was the young woman who made a mistake by trusting someone else (complete stranger no less) with her very well being.
I may believe the woman had a right to visit someones home without feeling fear, but it's definitely not a very smart thing to do with a stranger...is it?
Do YOU think she made the right decision?
Do you think her "right" to be safe helped her in this situation?
Obviously not!!!Call it "blame" if you want, the decision was hers to place herself in a situation that could and did cause her harm.....she gambled and lost.
The assault situations women should take responsibility for are the times when a woman assaults another person.
otherwise, no, the victims are not responsible for the criminal actions of the person who assaults them.
That doesn't mean a person can't try to avoid situations where they might be subject to violence, just like a man might not want to walk down the street alone at 2 am in a crime ridden area either. But that doesn't make him at fault if he gets mugged, even if there is a greater chance of it happening based on his actions.
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